Towing capacity - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 01-21-2013, 04:48 PM   #29
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On the OT side, I like em both!

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Old 01-21-2013, 04:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
For me, there can be no surprises in a world where there's a Ford Pinto Forum!

Francesca
Still makes my list of the ten best cars ever made.
In fact I still have one (with a 5.0L V8). It's just a faster, better handling Mustang!
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:37 PM   #31
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Still makes my list of the ten best cars ever made.
In fact I still have one (with a 5.0L V8). It's just a faster, better handling Mustang!
For a minute there I thought he was talking about the Gremlin
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ed Harris View Post
So anyone suggesting that following the manufacturers ratings is a "Fear Monger" but urging the O.P. to cast aside the ratings because it has been fine for others is somehow a Prudent response?
Suggesting that someone is going to be sued or their warranty is going to be invalidated is fear mongering. Especially, when you are talking about towing 300# over the manufacture's rating on a truck with a chassis rated for 2500# with a bigger engine.

Quote:
That is just crazy and how is it that these threads seem to deteriorate to this so consistently and quickly?
They deteriorate when people call each other crazy.

Quote:
In this specific case the O.P. merely asks if it makes sense to disregard the manufacturer ratings and you suggest he does?
Again we have no knowledge at all about the vehicle in question in any other area and he is not in any other area.

How is not following the manufacturer guideline not just common sense?
Really?
The tow rating for a capable chassis with a small engine is set based on the customer expectation that the vehicle will tow a trailer in the rated range up steep grades with relative ease. A customer towing on level grades or willing to take grades with the trucks, will be happy and safe towing within the rating for the chassis.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:51 PM   #33
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Not interested in debating further on the topic but I thought the following links & a bit of back ground info behind each link might be interesting reading for some.

ICBC is a government owned and operated insurance company that those of us living in the province of BC must buy our auto insurance from. Trailers in BC must have their own insurance as well. They have a bunch of info on towing but the one PDF ICBC Titled Before you Tow may raise a few eye brows and make you wonder if they will or will not cover you should you have an accident & its found the accident was due to towing over your tugs towing capacity. Of note on the first page of the PDF it reads:

"Towing and weight capacity
You need to know the truck’s:
• towing capacity rating,
• GVWR, and
• load capacity.
These are usually listed in the owner’s manual and on a plate or decal on the
vehicle. Make sure that the truck’s towing capacity, GVWR and load capacity are rated
for the load to be carried and the trailer you want to tow."

Under definitions on the side it reads "Towing capacity is the maximum weight that a
vehicle is capable of towing."

Under Fast Facts on the side bar it reads "Motor Vehicle Act Regulations prohibit the
operation of vehicles that are unsafely or improperly loaded, or that exceed weight ratings. "


DriveSafeBC is a government funded program to promote safe driving in the province. They have a website where you can ask a question and get an answer. The following DriveSmartBC link is to a question asked in regards to towing a boat & trailer that weight 5150lbs but the tugs tow Capacity is only 5000lbs. They asked from a legal perspective, what fines or penalties would be applied for doing so.

A bit of background on the party who answered the question can also be found on the DriveSafeBC Website - about DriveSafeBC. The Coles notes version of their crudentials are:
25 years of policing with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, 5 on general duty, 20 on traffic and 10 as a collision analyst responsible to conduct technical investigations of collisions.
Teaching seminars for mature drivers at College programs
Contribute to The RV Times and Tow Canada
The weekly article appears in community newspapers and web sites
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:59 PM   #34
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Really
They seem to go down the tube the minute someone suggests it is OK to make up Tow Ratings on their own I think?

I never called you crazy Tom but I am certainly confused about how someone can suggest ignoring the rated capacity outright and calls observing it Fear Mongering.

Clearly there are those in these discussions merely to be contrary and to somehow validate their own behavior in the name of doing it there way?

I am clear about one thing,no further insistence from you that it is OK and no more suggestion from me that the ratings are there for any sound reasons will illuminate this any further.

I am out of this again and exasperated again with this line of reasoning.


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Old 01-21-2013, 05:59 PM   #35
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A vote here for sticky of Carol's post.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #36
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Carole, I read the information in your link and something jumped out at me.

19.11 (1) Unless operating under the provisions of an overload permit issued under the Commercial Transport Act, no person shall operate or cause to be operated a vehicle that is loaded in such a manner that the gross weight carried by any axle exceeds the gross weight rating for that axle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer, or the gross vehicle weight exceeds the gross vehicle weight rating for that vehicle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer.
(2) The weight distribution of a bus shall be such that not less than 25 per cent of the gross vehicle weight is on the front axle when measured on level ground.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a vehicle
(a) manufactured before January 1, 2001, and
(b) having a gross vehicle weight rating of 5 500 kg or less.

Sub section (1) does not apply to most fibreglass trailers. In fact, this looks to be targeted at the commercial drivers.
Why do you think this exception was made? No such exception was made for 7.161 concerning tires.

This information is on the same web page as the 5150 lb question. In light of this exception, does this invalidate the response to the 5150 lb question? I mean, how does he issue a ticket when no violation has occurred?
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
ICBC is a government owned and operated insurance company that those of us living in the province of BC must buy our auto insurance from. Trailers in BC must have their own insurance as well. They have a bunch of info on towing but the one PDF ICBC Titled Before you Tow may raise a few eye brows ...

Under definitions on the side it reads "Towing capacity is the maximum ht that a
vehicle is capable of towing."

Under Fast Facts on the side bar it reads "Motor Vehicle Act Regulations prohibit the
operation of vehicles that are unsafely or improperly loaded, or that exceed weight ratings. "
The ICBC article defines towing capacity because it is helpfully explaining how to determine how much can be towed. It also mentions legal limits (such as GVWR and GAWR) but I do not believe that it ever says that towing capacity is such a legal limit.

The actual regulations for British Columbia are available at BC Laws Can anyone find a regulation there that mentions towing capacity as a legal limit? I have not been able to do so. Has anyone seen a violation ticket for towing over the legal limit, and if so what regulation and section did it quote?

I am not endorsing the disregard of any manufacturer's direction; however, I do not see justification for claiming legal force for merely recommended practices.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:33 PM   #38
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To my mind, there is some irony of this whole line of discussion that comes up over and over on this and other camping forums. And that is for every person that want to tow trailer "A" with tow vehicle "B", that may in fact be a poor match, there is always a reasonable tow vehicle, with plenty of tow capacity, in the same approximate price and operating cost category, available to buy. Why not just buy a vehicle or camper that is a logical, safe, and within-spec match ? I just don't get it.
Dirty Harry said it best: "a man's gotta know his limitations". For me, that can mean admitting that the engineers at the car factory know a lot more than me, and I therefore ought to pay heed to their stated limitations. It helps me sleep easier at night.....and that is a good thing.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:40 PM   #39
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Another B.C. story. A few years ago there were stories in the media about police targeting overweight campers ( on trucks ). It was reported that most of the vehicles stopped and checked had campers that were way over the load the truck was rated for. And they were issued tickets, but worse, they couldn't drive the combo any further.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:52 PM   #40
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To those who think that the suggestion that someones warranty is going to be invalidated if they tow a trailer over their tugs tow cap is fear mongering here are a few interesting reads:

The http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...12Warranty.pdf
Ford -2012 Model Year (except F-650/750 and Hybrid vehicles)
Warranty Guide
Page 12
WHAT IS NOT COVERED UNDER THE NEW VEHICLE LIMITED
WARRANTY?
Damage Caused By:
• misuse of the vehicle, such a driving over curbs, overloading, racing or
using the vehicle as a permanent stationary power source


The Toyota Tacoma 2012 Warranty http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/docum...Tacoma_WMG.pdf
Page 12
New Vehicle Limited Warranty
WHAT IS NOT COVERED
This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting directly or indirectly from any of the following:
• Misuse — for example, racing or overloading......

I'm not going to bother listing all the manufactures limited Warranty clauses, but the others I did look at including Honda all had a "Misuse" clause. Google is your friend - if you want to know what your tugs Warranty actually reads it can be found at the your tug manufactures website.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:56 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Harris View Post
Really
They seem to go down the tube the minute someone suggests it is OK to make up Tow Ratings on their own I think?
There is a difference between making up your own tow ratings and applying some practical interpretation of a reduced rating on a more than capable vehicle.
Quote:
I never called you crazy Tom but I am certainly confused about how someone can suggest ignoring the rated capacity outright and calls observing it Fear Mongering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Harris View Post

That is just crazy
Perhaps someone else is posting under your name. There is a difference between "observing it" and predicting dire legal consequences.

Quote:
Clearly there are those in these discussions merely to be contrary and to somehow validate their own behavior in the name of doing it there way?
Are you making an accusation toward me? If so be clear and say so.

Quote:
I am clear about one thing,no further insistence from you that it is OK and no more suggestion from me that the ratings are there for any sound reasons will illuminate this any further.
I never sought to convince you of anything. My suggestion was for the OP, you jumped in all by yourself.

Quote:
I am out of this again and exasperated again with this line of reasoning.

Ed
You heard what you wanted to hear, not what I said.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:56 PM   #42
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Quote:
Why not just buy a vehicle or camper that is a logical, safe, and within-spec match ? I just don't get it.
What is logical and safe? That is the million dollar question. Is it really a simple and logical thing to do?

A couple years ago a ME posted on another towing forum and it went like this.....
QUOTE:

"I'm a ME working under Daimler. Let me tell you, a MAJORITY of the design specifications are not finalized by the engineering department. We can go through rigorous testing to prove the safe limit of a component, and marketing or the lawyers can slap on their veto stamp due to customer demand, perception, and other stupid reasons.

While I have never worked on design for towing, I can almost guarantee that most sedans and minivans are under-rated for marketing reasons. Simple law of physics tell you that the power-weight ratio, handling dynamics, and stopping power of a 3300 lbs, 270hp Altima + 5000 lbs trailer is superior to a 300hp F150 + 11000 lbs trailer.

Tow rig to trailer weight ratio is also largely irrelevant with proper design. Proof: commercial rigs tow trailers weighting many times heavier than the rig itself.
"
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