Towing capacity - Page 4 - Fiberglass RV


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-21-2013, 06:58 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
19.11 (1) Unless operating under the provisions of an overload permit issued under the Commercial Transport Act, no person shall operate or cause to be operated a vehicle that is loaded in such a manner that the gross weight carried by any axle exceeds the gross weight rating for that axle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer, or the gross vehicle weight exceeds the gross vehicle weight rating for that vehicle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer.

Sub section (1) does not apply to most fibreglass trailers. In fact, this looks to be targeted at the commercial drivers.
Even if this section did apply to non-commercial vehicles, a rig would not be in non-compliance unless the GAWRs or GVWR were exceeded. A car with even a zero tow rating does not violate this section, unless the combination of tongue weight and cargo plus passengers in the car overload an axle or the car.

Here's another part of the same "5150 lb article" which I note wasn't mentioned earlier, perhaps because it contradicts the idea that the towing limit is legally enforceable, and reinforces the idea that it is a recommended practice:
Quote:
GROSS COMBINATION WEIGHT RATING

This is your vehicle manufacturer's design limit for the safe operation of a combination of vehicles. It is based on the engine size and rear axle gear ratios, but still takes into account total load and axle loads. Your owner's manual and vehicle dealer are the best source of more information on GCWR.

There is currently no offence in either the Motor Vehicle Act or Commercial Transport Act for being over the GCWR as long as you are not over the other legislated limits. You may jeopardize your vehicle warranty and expose yourself to civil liability should something go wrong when the GCWR is exceeded.
Again, I am not advocating exceeding any rating, but GCWR and max trailer weight rating are often (as with the original Dodge Journey question) related to drivetrain reliability (which is not of interest to regulators) and not safe control of the vehicle.
__________________

__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:59 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
David Tilston's Avatar
 
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Trillium 4500 - 1977, 1978 (2), 1300 - 1977, 1973, and a 1972
Alberta
Posts: 5,314
Registry
I really have no dog in this fight. My TV is a Savana 1500 with ample tow capacity for my now 3500# rated Trillium 4500. I carry seven people in the van, but four of them add up to about 300#. I think I am within manufacturers recommendations.
Non the less, I believe that engineering has taken a back seat to litigation. The tow limits as published are mostly a way for the auto manufactures to down load the liability to the consumer. They would prefer it if we don't drive the cars that they sell us, safer all the way around that way. Especally when they have been known to manufacture cars that exceed the GVW on the show room floor.
Does that mean that I believe that anything goes? No. Why does a Smart car have a tow rating, when my Firefly does not? Now I don't claim to know more about it then the engineers, but I would like some explanation. I have seen pictures of a Firefly towing a Trillium 1300. This is stupid and reckless in my opinion, and I can only hope that the person who did this, is the only person to suffer the consequences of this decision.
I was so concerned that the axle on my Trillium 4500 was only rated for 2000#, when the trailer was likely near that dry, I had a 3500# axle installed, and I regret it. Now, unless my trailer is loaded up, I am in danger of breaking it going across a bumpy train track. I put this axle on because I took seriously the advice of people who said that It would be irresponsible to even think of exceeding the axle rating. In the 34 year life of the original axle, I assume that it has been loaded with more then 2000# for more then a few miles. Probably for the majority of it's use. Yet, it was in fine shape. It had lots of travel and spring in it.
If I had to do it again, I would have tried it out with the original axle and if it felt like it was overloaded, then I would have had a 2500# axle installed instead. If I ended up with 2650# on it, I would not be concerned.
I think what needs to be considered is that there is a difference between going way over the capacity of a vehicle, (yes a trailer is a vehicle) and marginally exceeding the rating. The guy that pulls a 2000# trailer with a vehicle which is not rated to pull anything, is not the same as a guy that has 500# more then he is rated for on a 3500# axle. I think that the emotional over reaction to the 500# is not warranted.
These are just my thoughts, I don't claim to be any kind of expert.
__________________

__________________
David Tilston is offline  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:01 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
Ed Harris's Avatar
 
Name: Ed
Trailer: 1982 Fiber Stream and 2002 Casita Freedom Deluxe,The driveway is a Dark & Lonely Place now!
Missouri
Posts: 1,776
Tom I never called you crazy,I do think that line of reasoning is a little crazy. I don't even know you so I would take this as my intended sentiment not what you think I said.

I am stunned endlessly that anyone could suggest disregarding the manufacturers ratings as a responsible alternative to not doing so. Pretty simple logic to follow I thought?

If this is not clear enough,so be it.

Ed
__________________
Ed Harris is offline  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:02 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
Thomas G.'s Avatar
 
Name: Kinga DeRode
Trailer: For Sale Or Rent
Rooms to Let 50 Cents
Posts: 5,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
To those who think that the suggestion that someones warranty is going to be invalidated if they tow a trailer over their tugs tow cap is fear mongering here are a few interesting reads:
............
So if your rig is rated for 5000 pounds and a bird dropping increases the weight over the limit, will the manufacturer deny you warranty? Technically, I'm sure they would be in their rights, but in reality these boiler plate references are only invoked when the abuse if flagrant. Someone towing a 1300# FG trailer with a Journey has nothing to fear, especially if they installed a transmission cooler, which may have been why it was de-rated , anyway.
__________________
UHaul and Burro owners, join the UHaul Campers on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/groups/529276933859491/
Thomas G. is online now  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:08 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
Another B.C. story. A few years ago there were stories in the media about police targeting overweight campers ( on trucks ). .
Glenn, its a *VERY* true story - they were doing a lot of checks on Vancouver Island and the Okanogan where pick ups with campers and hauling boats are common. They often do them by a weigh scales so they can get a read out of actual weights. A number of my family members have been stopped in such stops and one of them actually upgraded his tug as a result of those checks and the other sold his camper so he would be legal hauling his boat with fully loaded gas tanks & a case of beer I have told the story here before and despite being at one such check in person and knowing what they said and what they did and knowing they did indeed take a look at what the manufactures tow specs where on the truck ..... there is a party here who continued to argue the point via PM with me as to what they were really looking for and doing at those check points. Go figure.....
Carol H is offline  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:13 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Thomas G.'s Avatar
 
Name: Kinga DeRode
Trailer: For Sale Or Rent
Rooms to Let 50 Cents
Posts: 5,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Harris View Post
Tom I never called you crazy,I do think that line of reasoning is a little crazy. I don't even know you so I would take this as my intended sentiment not what you think I said.

I am stunned endlessly that anyone could suggest disregarding the manufacturers ratings as a responsible alternative to not doing so. Pretty simple logic to follow I thought?

If this is not clear enough,so be it.

Ed
Read my lips. I never said that someone should do anything dangerous. If a minivan is rated for 3500# one year and they take off the factory installed transmission cooler and de-rate the towing to 1500# the following model year with no other changes, is it dangerous to tow 3500#? Maybe it is a risk to the transmission, but the vehicle is still capable. What if you added the oil cooler back on would that minivan never be safe to haul 3500#? The door sticker would say so.

The Journey is analogous. The limiting factor may well be transmission cooling and it was thrifted on the low end model. In any case 300# is rounding error when the towing is specified in such a round number.
__________________
UHaul and Burro owners, join the UHaul Campers on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/groups/529276933859491/
Thomas G. is online now  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:17 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Thomas G.'s Avatar
 
Name: Kinga DeRode
Trailer: For Sale Or Rent
Rooms to Let 50 Cents
Posts: 5,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Not interested in debating further on the topic but ...........
Sure....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
To those who think that the suggestion that someones warranty is going to be invalidated if they tow a trailer over their tugs tow cap is fear mongering here are a few interesting reads:
...........
Still not interested in debating this but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Glenn, its a *VERY* true story - they were doing a lot of checks on Vancouver Island and the Okanogan..............
Oh as long as we are debating this.....
__________________
UHaul and Burro owners, join the UHaul Campers on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/groups/529276933859491/
Thomas G. is online now  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:26 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Jared J's Avatar
 
Name: Jared
Trailer: 1984 19' scamp
Kansas
Posts: 1,610
I don't care to get into this fight of exceeding limits, I'll leave that to others.

I did want to bring something else up. There's a big difference between the person that pulls a trailer at (or over) the ratings for 1-200 miles a few times a year, and the person that does it 20k miles a year.

There's also a big difference between a tow vehicle doing this on interstate, and into paved campgrounds, vs. one doing it on rough backgrounds, blm land, etc.

There's also a difference between a vehicle doing this in an area with summer highs of 80*f, and one doing it in an area that's usually 110*F.

Hills, flat ground, same thing.

There are many considerations other than just weight. I tow through some pretty good hills where I usually go. The Titan will hold 75 without even downshifting. Other vehicles with campers are dropping down to 50, and wound out. On hot days, I've seen many that were probably within max ratings, but pulled over and overheated. Again, I flew right on by. I was well within my ratings.

If a trailer starts bucking due to road conditions, are the tranny input/output shafts built to handle something like that?

It may be fine with trailer brakes, ever try to stop without them and see what happens? I lost trailer brakes after an accident, and had another 400 miles to go without them. I was ok with the pickup, with a lighter rig, I would have been rewiring the trailer in a parking lot.

Tongue weight is another. I think some vehicles in here are running so close, that a few pounds either way could have some dangerous outcomes. I could add another 800 pounds tongue weight, wouldn't matter.

I'm not saying everybody needs a 1/2 ton to pull these trailers, or anything close to it. I'm just saying max weight rating isn't the only factor in safe (or sometimes just easier) hauling (IMHO).
__________________
Jared J is offline  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:27 PM   #51
Moderator
 
Frederick L. Simson's Avatar
 
Name: Frederick
Trailer: Fiber Stream
California
Posts: 8,151
Registry
Send a message via AIM to Frederick L. Simson
Time Out!

Time Out!

The moderating staff is discussing this issue. We'll get back to you.
__________________

__________________
Frederick - The Scaleman
1978 Fiber Stream 16 named "Eggstasy" & 1971 Compact Jr. named "Boomerang"
Frederick L. Simson is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TV Capacity Tezha Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 13 11-30-2010 05:14 PM
Towing capacity video Ron Stewart Jokes, Stories & Tall Tales 2 10-16-2009 09:21 PM
Towing Capacity?? Carol W. Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 1 09-26-2009 08:56 PM
Towing capacity 96 Ranger 4.0? Shelley Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 6 07-13-2009 09:00 PM
Least expensive new tug w/ 3000 lb towing capacity? Ron Stewart Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 4 02-16-2009 08:14 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.