Towing Trillium 13 vs. Boler/Scamp style 13

[Booker B.]

Great post Raya, it's nice to get detailed descriptions like this.

I have had both a 1 tank and a 2 tank Trillium and the tongue weight on the 2 tank trillium was substantially more than our 1 tanker. With 1 tank and a battery box I can move the Trillium by hand, with 2 tanks there is no way I could do it myself without having a roller leg.

The design of these trailers assumed that you had water on board. The water being behind the axle would mean it would balance with the extra tongue weight to give you a reasonable final tongue weight. We never use our water tank so I make sure that I place our heavy items behind the axle or over the axle. You still want to have 10-15% of the final trailer weight on the tongue (150lbs - 200lbs) but you don't want it so much that it presses your rear shocks down and makes the car light on the front tires.

Finally, if you have trailer brakes on your trailer get a controller and use them. The difference in all braking situations is night and day. I have towed with and without on our Subaru Forester and there is just no comparison from a safety stand point.

[Daniel V.]

So, in summary, the biggest difference (and what I did not like about towing the U-Haul) was the feeling of weight on the hitch ball; that feeling of the rig "folding down" at that joint whenever I went over a bump. I wonder how much of the tongue weight causing that (I assume that's what it was) is due to the second propane tank? OTOH, I see lots of trailers that have a battery mounted there, and they're not light...?

Interesting experiment... But in all fairness, tongue weight is something that can vary greatly depending on how you load things, and you can make the tongue weight of any trailer heavier or lighter than the other just by moving things around (and make a Boler worse than a Trillium or vice-versa). I think you could cut a lot of the guess work by simply weighing your tongue(s), and your trailer(s). So far it looks like there are many differences between your trailers besides the extra few inches of wind resistance, and the same would apply to two identical Bolers that had different layouts/equipment/luggage.

But as Booker said, some of us are biased to start with.

[Raya]

Interesting experiment... But in all fairness, tongue weight is something that can vary greatly depending on how you load thing... So far it looks like there are many differences between your trailers besides the extra few inches of wind resistance, and the same would apply to two identical Bolers that had different layouts/equipment/luggage.

Actually, for the sake of the experiment, I thought they were remarkably similar. Both have a propane fridge; neither were at all loaded; both have a spare on the back bumper. The only substantive difference (besides the design, which can't be changed) I see is the 1 vs. 2 propane tanks. (The gravity furnace in the Trillium is basically just a bit of sheet metal and it's right over the axle anyway.)

Booker, that's interesting to hear -- that two propane tanks made the tongue so much heavier on your Trillium(s) than one tank and one battery. I like the idea of two tanks, since I'd like to boonie camp and use the fridge and furnace, but OTOH one might be enough, and/or an aluminum or composite tank could replace the steel tank(s). It sure would be nice to put a battery on the tongue, but I suppose I could also put one in the rear, possibly in a vented compartment (I like lead-acid batteries).

I should weigh the tongues - and probably would have already if I actually owned a "bathroom" scale

I'm glad that (at least) a couple of people found my long-winded post interesting. Note that I was basically forced to buy two trailers to get more information This weekend I'll have some time to spend with them both so that I can decide which one I should keep and which one will need a new home.

Raya

[Raya]

Reading Booker's trailer ID in his avatar brings up a question: How do you know whether a given Trillium is a "Deluxe" or a ... regular?

Thanks,

Raya

[Booker B.]

Good question and I will outline my 'vague' reasoning about why I feel it's the deluxe model =)

As each year Trillium was produced different features were added. In 1972 there were standard options like fridge or furnace but not much else. As each year Trillium was produced more features were produced, some standard and some optional. My 1976 came with fiberglass shelves over the diner and the bunk bed, a door window, cutlery drawer under the table and add-a-room attachments. These were all non-standard features I believe. Later years included the options of a stove window.

I chose to call mine a 'deluxe' as I have seen several members with loaded 4500's who declared them deluxe models.

EDIT: Whoops, and it came with electric brakes which is why I bought the 2nd Trillium. I too had 2 trailers in my yard for awhile =)

[Jake Jacobson]

Booker -

My friend's 13' Trillium (I believe a 1977, not sure) has the "wrap around shelves" that go around the front and back of the trailer. I absolutely love this feature and wish I had it on my Scamp. Perfect place to put all the flotsam and jetsam you have out when camping (I put all mine on the upper bunk). I thought this shelf was a standard feature on the Trilliums, now I know different. His trailer also has the door window.

[Booker B.]

Hi Jake,

Yes, the wrap around shelf was a great idea. It does block a bit of light from the windows but the Trillium does let in a lot of the light with all the big windows. On the 4500 they closed the shelves in but I don't know if they ever did that on the 1300. I have thought of adding a stove window - it's added light in just the right place. This 1977 for sale has one - actually this trailer looks remarkable like ours right down to the black stripe and dome wheels.

[CliveAlive]

Nice report Reya.

Do you have overload spings on the back of the wagon? They give the rear end slightly more bounce when unloaded, but loaded they make a terrific improvement to the ride and keeping the rear from sagging and resultant loss of weight from the front.

I got mine here: http://www.ipdusa.com/

You can find them elsewhere of course.

Whichever trailer you keep I think you will find them a great enhancement.

Don't forget the pics, will you?

[Raya]

Clive,

Just noticed your reply (figured out there was a "new posts" button but that was after you posted).

I don't have overload springs on this wagon, but I do plan to get them. Years ago I had an extra leaf added to the rear suspension on my Toyota pickup which had a "slightly overgrown" tall topper. (That was a great rig.) I've also got a set of anti-sway bars I took from a Turbo wagon (at a junkyard) that I've been meaning to install. (Of course the IPD bars look nice.)

I won't forget photos. Actually I need to take photos for my "for sale" ad which I've got to post ASAP (I don't have room for a whole trailer "family" )

Raya

[CliveAlive]

Wow Reya;

You already have the wagon "turbo bars"!

Turbo sway bars are the best bang for the buck you can get in performance mods, especially junkyard ones! I had them on my 83 245 GL (now sold). Once you put them on you'll wish you had done it sooner!

With the overload springs it should make a nicely balanced car. The sedan turbo bars are 23/21mm vs the turbo wagon 23/19mm and can more easily develop oversteer especially with the overload coils (ask me how I know).

I get a lot of my spare parts from the JY too.

[Raya]

Well as long as we're on the topic: Did you get new bushings when you installed the used bars? If so, did you get stock Volvo rubber, or something like IPD's blue poly ones? I've read concerns about the poly bushings being stiff enough to stress other stock parts, but have no idea if that's warranted.

I'm about due for new rear shocks, so I may treat myself and have the mechanic put the bars on (I think I'm going to give the Boge Turbo Gas a whirl - they're supposed to be one step "up" from the stock Boge Automatics, but nothing too crazy.)

I drove a friend's 92 wagon with the IPD turbo bars, the overload springs, vented rotors, and a 5-speed. No, he wouldn't sell it to me <_<

Raya

[CliveAlive]

Did you get new bushings when you installed the used bars? If so, did you get stock Volvo rubber, or something like IPD's blue poly ones? I've read concerns about the poly bushings being stiff enough to stress other stock parts, but have no idea if that's warranted.

I'm about due for new rear shocks, so I may treat myself and have the mechanic put the bars on (I think I'm going to give the Boge Turbo Gas a whirl - they're supposed to be one step "up" from the stock Boge Automatics, but nothing too crazy.)

I drove a friend's 92 wagon with the IPD turbo bars, the overload springs, vented rotors, and a 5-speed. No, he wouldn't sell it to me <_<

Raya

It was over 12 years ago that I put the turbo sways on that wagon and now it's sold. In any case my preference would be stock Volvo bushings for that, unless, as you say, you really want to firm up the ride. And yes, I've read that any other weaknesses in your suspension/bushings would be accentuated.

I would also agree with your choice of shocks. I plan on those for my current wagon the next time I need them.

The 92 wagon sounds like fun! I used to enjoy driving a standard tranny (and the 83 245GL was an M46 with O/D) untill I learnt the skill and fun of "power braking"!

Drive safely!

[Dan R]

It was over 12 years ago that I put the turbo sways on that wagon and now it's sold. In any case my preference would be stock Volvo bushings for that, unless, as you say, you really want to firm up the ride. And yes, I've read that any other weaknesses in your suspension/bushings would be accentuated.

I would also agree with your choice of shocks. I plan on those for my current wagon the next time I need them.

The 92 wagon sounds like fun! I used to enjoy driving a standard tranny (and the 83 245GL was an M46 with O/D) untill I learnt the skill and fun of "power braking"!

Drive safely!

Hey Clive,
My tv is a '90 240 sedan with standard 5 speed transmission. I love it. What do you recommend suspension wise? I prefer sedans as I haul tools for work and if something isn't visible, nobody knows it is there. This is all related to my tv pulling my 13' Scamp. Thanks, Dan

[CliveAlive]

Hey Clive,
My tv is a '90 240 sedan with standard 5 speed transmission. I love it. What do you recommend suspension wise? I prefer sedans as I haul tools for work and if something isn't visible, nobody knows it is there. This is all related to my tv pulling my 13' Scamp. Thanks, Dan

Dan, that's great! Another Volvo driver!

This thread seems to be going adrift though perhaps and maybe the Mods will want to split it off?!

To answer you though; I am certainly no expert, I've just had 240's for a while. And it would depend on what you wanted to do with the car.

A 90 is 18 years old so the fist thing I would do if you havn't already is to get it to Stage 0; make sure that all the suspension bushings are in good shape and replace where needed, ball joints, tie rods etc. Good shocks.

For towing I do recommend the rear overload coils, or maybe you want to lower the car with lowering springs.

As I said above, the next best bang for the buck is better (anti) sway bars. Volvo 240 Turbo sedan bars are a really great upgrade and the IPD ones are said to be even better. I have not personally shelled out for them.

I just did the trailing arm bushings and torque rods on my fairly new to me 85 wagon.

I know what you mean about the security though. I have a cargo cover for my wagon.