Towing weight?

[Mouse]

Just weighed Mouse.

Standing on its own: 1680 lbs
Attached to my car: 1440 lbs

Which is the towing weight?

I don't have brakes on the CT13 and adding them is difficult, so I would like it to be under 1400 lbs. I removed 112 lbs of stuff that was easy to move - food, clothes, towels, water, etc. The estimated attached weight is now 1328 lbs.

The tongue weight was high - 280 lbs, 200 lbs max for my Subaru, so I moved the spare tire, 35 lbs, from the tongue to the rear bumper. A lot of the removed weight came from the front of the trailer.

What do you think?

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Just weighed Mouse.

Standing on its own: 1680 lbs
Attached to my car: 1440 lbs

Which is the towing weight?

I would consider the towing weight to be the total weight, including contents (which I assume you did include) which would be standing on its own.

Standing Weight = Total weight
Attached to car = Axle weight
Difference between the two = Tongue weight

[jack maloney]

I'm surprised at the weight you show for your CT13.

My CT13 weighs in at 1550lbs. fully loaded, including full water and propane tanks, kitchen gear, bedding, etc. Tongue weight is 180lbs. The spare mounts on a bracket at the back, which I assume was original.

We towed our CT13 with a 1998 Subaru Outback coast-to-coast, no trailer brakes and no problems all through the US and Canadian Rockies.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

I would consider the towing weight to be the total weight, including contents (which I assume you did include) which would be standing on its own.

Standing Weight = Total weight
Attached to car = Axle weight
Difference between the two = Tongue weight

Great question! I can't count the number of times I heard it said that tongue weight was TV cargo weight since it was directly carried by the tow vehicle.

[cpaharley2008]

The tongue weight is part of the tow vehicle's weight in calculating the gross carrying capacity of the tow vehicle. Passengers, fuel, gear, trailer tongue weight, animals are all part of the tow vehicle's limitation. Thus my Dodge Ram can pull 12,000 lbs but the carrying capacity is around 1500 lbs. With 2 persons, 25 gallons of fuel, 2 dogs, a cap on the rear, my tongue weight of 300, only leave me with maybe 200 lbs for stuff to carry like firewood or grills or pop up tents in the truck bed. You definitely can not fill up the back of the truck and be within the capacity stated on the door frame.

[BCDave]

The simple answer is: Weigh the rear of your tug. Now hitch up.
Did the rear weight change? Did the rear of the tug go down? Which vehicle is carrying that weight?

[Pam Garlow]

Brooke, you may want to go through your trailer and thin out the extra stuff that you are taking 'just to be safe'. Unless you are boondocking miles away from anywhere, you will be close enough to go buy something if it becomes an absolute necessity. Funny how the weight of things add up.

[Carol H]

The towing weight is the 1680lbs

Brook even if you get it down to under 1400lbs that is still well over the Subaru limit of 1000lbs without brakes on the trailer - it may be a pain to add brakes to the trailer but you will go through brakes on the car fast without brakes on the trailer - trust me they are not a cheap item to have to replace.

[jack maloney]

Originally Posted by Carol H

The towing weight is the 1680lbs

Brook even if you get it down to under 1400lbs that is still well over the Subaru limit of 1000lbs without brakes on the trailer - it may be a pain to add brakes to the trailer but you will go through brakes on the car fast without brakes on the trailer - trust me they are not a cheap item to have to replace.

My experience says otherwise. The CT13 without brakes is an easy tow for the Subaru Outback. We've driven that combination extensively through the mountains of Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia and Alberta, in all weathers and road conditions, without a problem. And no unusual wear on the brake pads, either. It probably helps that we limit our speed to 60mph, shift down for long downhills, and pull over to help followers pass when possible.

[BCDave]

Jack:

Somehow I have the impression that Brooke is not a long-term towing expert. Are you seriously suggesting that she should head out on what may very well be her first towing adventure with a rig that is WAY over the max limits set as by the car manufacturer?

I trust that you are prepared to appear as an "expert witness" in any legal proceeding which may come about as a result of her following your advice, as well as being prepared to offer compensation for any losses that she may incur as a result of following your advice?

Personally, when someone seeks advice from me, I have always found it better to offer advice that is LESS "adventurous" than what is supplied by manufacturers - IE to err on the safe side.

Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth

Things that I may do - which may push the envelope - are NOT things that I would be prepared to advise others to do.

[fidgetboy]

Also, you need to remember will your insurance company cover you if you are towing more than allowed and have an accident. I also have a Subaru which has a low towing capacity and I would feel comfortable towing over the capacity but I would never recommend that to anyone else or even let my wife do the same. Food for though break out the popcorn.

[Carol H]

Jack everyone's experience is different. On my 3rd Outback the first 2 I did not tow with and I know the latest one that does tow and tows with a trailer with brakes on it that it went through its first set of brakes faster than any of my previous Outbacks.

I note the original poster has no previous towing experience and has indicated in other posts they are going to be heading off on a long trip shortly - California? Hummm brand new car.....not following the manufactures specs can cause warranty issues .....not to mention safety issues towing over the vehicles specs.

[Mouse]

Mouse follows right along when I tow her. All I notice is a few bobbles when we go over uneven road. My Outback is rated for 2700 pounds so she is within that spec. My shake down trip which now has the added excitement of an unknown propane issue is just over the hill to the beach about 25 miles from here. So it isn't very far or very challenging a drive.

My previous towing experience is with my 1995 Ford Explorer which is so heavy that it doesn't notice that it is towing anything. If this trip doesn't work well with the Subaru, I'll go back to the Explorer. She has been up in Tahoe for skiing. I'm brining her back next week. Unfortunately her hitch is fixed on her really high bumper and she gets only 15 miles a gallon towing.

I'm just pretty much shocked that a CT13 weighs that much. I'm reweighing her to see if the gravel pit scale I used weighs heavy.

[keekers]

Brooke,
Maybe Mouse is a double yolked egg???

[jack maloney]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Jack:

Are you seriously suggesting that she should head out on what may very well be her first towing adventure with a rig that is WAY over the max limits set as by the car manufacturer?

I trust that you are prepared to appear as an "expert witness" in any legal proceeding which may come about as a result of her following your advice, as well as being prepared to offer compensation for any losses that she may incur as a result of following your advice?

To all make-believe lawyers: I "suggested" nothing and "advised" nothing. I simply cited my own experience towing an unbraked CT13 with an Outback coast-to-coast and through North America's most challenging mountains, with no problems and no unusual wear on the brakes. Obviously, if you push the speed limit, like to tailgate, never downshift and ride your brakes down the long descents, your experience will be different.

[floyd]

I am reminded of the old saw which contains the question Mother always asks...

" Billy: But Mouum! Joey's doin' it! Everybody's doin' it!

Mom: If Joey jumped off a cliff... would you jump off a cliff?"

The moral is to learn to think for yourself.

It's hard to imagine how much expounding is done on this subject by those who claim that the only thing which matters is the manufacturer's tow weight rating, even to the point of embellishing it's impact.
Wouldn't this three word sentence then make all other advice extraneous?...
Consult your owner's manual.

I am struck by the idea that weight is generally the only factor discussed when determining tow capacity while frontal area(for instance) is an equally important calculus.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Mouse

My Outback is rated for 2700 pounds so she is within that spec. .

Actual the spec on your Outback for a trailer without brakes is only 1000lbs.

I have no doubt that Outback would be a great vehicle to use for your trailer but to meet the cars towing specs with the trailer you have, you will need to put brakes on the trailer.