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10-17-2017, 09:10 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: 2021 Scamp
Oregon
Posts: 23
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Towing with a 2013 Honda Odyssey
Hi Everyone,
My family and I are interested in buying a 16' Scamp Standard Layout 4 with the standard option package. The folks at Scamp say dry weight for this will be 2100 lbs. Other options I'd like to add are a 35 lb furnace, 95 lb AC, and an upgraded fridge which would add 40 lb. This would make my dry weight 2370:
2100 + 35 + 95 + 40 = 2370
The Odyssey towing capacity is 3500 lbs, and we are a family of four. In the Odyssey manual it says after accounting for the number of passengers and 15 lbs of stuff for each passenger, my capacity drops to 3200 lbs.
Here are my questions:
1) I know this varies widely but how many lbs of stuff would a family of 4 typically bring in the tow vehicle and the Scamp? Besides the usual stuff we'd want to bring 4 bikes also.
2) How much would the water and propane weigh?
3) Do you think I can comfortably tow with the Odyssey? Can I tow up steeper grades? I don't want to damage the van.
Thank you,
Tom
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10-17-2017, 10:25 AM
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#2
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Member
Name: MURRAY
Trailer: Ventura
British Columbia (BC)
Posts: 92
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Hi Tom
I had the same dilemma.
Be sure to look at the car specs and towing capacity.
My Sante Fe can pull under 1,635 lbs without trailer brakes or a tow pkg.
When you get up to 3,500 lbs of trailer, my car then needs a transmission cooler, bigger rad, and brakes on the trailer. I never like pushing things to the max. Check it out. You could be alright.
Having said that. I bought a 1,200lbs. trailer. Don't hardly know it's there.
I went for the least comforts I am comfortable with to keep the weight down. I have no bathroom. (porta-poti) As soon as you have a toilet, you also have more water, 10lbs./g.,and a holding tank.
Good luck.
You will find what works.
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10-17-2017, 10:33 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: Escape 21C
New York
Posts: 2,387
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For what it is worth, I made a trip to Alaska with friends that towed a Scamp with a Toyota Sienna with the same tow ratings. For much of the trip 3 adults & stuff. The only problems were low ground clearance (rarely a problem) and while there was no problem with grades on main roads, on steep gravel campground roads the front wheel drive ended up with tire spin to the point where they had to start the hill over again. Only happened once or twice.
You probably should spend some time considering how you will carry the bikes. I doubt a bike rack on the rear of the Scamp will work - it didn't take much weight on the back of their Layout 4 Scamp before handling problems cropped up.
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10-17-2017, 10:47 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Name: Mike
Trailer: Escape 21 & Jeep GC 5.7 (Previous 2012 Casita FD17 & 2010 Audi Q5)
Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 1,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teg_76
Hi Everyone,
My family and I are interested in buying a 16' Scamp Standard Layout 4 with the standard option package. The folks at Scamp say dry weight for this will be 2100 lbs. Other options I'd like to add are a 35 lb furnace, 95 lb AC, and an upgraded fridge which would add 40 lb. This would make my dry weight 2370:
2100 + 35 + 95 + 40 = 2370
The Odyssey towing capacity is 3500 lbs, and we are a family of four. In the Odyssey manual it says after accounting for the number of passengers and 15 lbs of stuff for each passenger, my capacity drops to 3200 lbs.
Here are my questions:
1) I know this varies widely but how many lbs of stuff would a family of 4 typically bring in the tow vehicle and the Scamp? Besides the usual stuff we'd want to bring 4 bikes also.
2) How much would the water and propane weigh?
3) Do you think I can comfortably tow with the Odyssey? Can I tow up steeper grades? I don't want to damage the van.
Thank you,
Tom
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Tom,
It looks like you are taking the time to find the correct numbers. As you note, everything carried in or on reduces the towing capacity. Also consider that the payload capacity of the vehicle includes the driver, the passengers, the "stuff", and the tongue weight of the trailer. So, everything carried in or on also has to be measured against the payload capacity.
Additional to the bicycles, good bicycles racks can be quite heavy, so be sure to factor that in. Placing too many bikes on the back of the trailer can cause instability (sway). Placing bikes on a roof rack can create a lot of "wind resistance".
Water is 8.34 lbs per gallon for either freshwater or the wastewater in the black and gray tanks, so you'll normally want to empty those when leaving a campground. What is sometimes called a "five-gallon" propane cylinder weighs about 16.6 lbs empty, and holds up to 20 lbs of LP gas at about 4.24 lbs per gallon.
I estimate some 800 lbs for our gear because I "think" it's only 600. Escape Trailer's website offers some numbers on their FAQ page under "What tow vehicle is needed to pull an Escape?":
On average, most Escape customers carry about 800lbs – 1,000lbs of cargo with them when they travel and add about 200lbs – 300lbs of options to their Escape Travel Trailer.
Therefore, the
17′ Escape, Plan A with a dry weight of 1,970lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 2,970lbs.
17′ Escape, Plan B (Bathroom) with a dry weight of 2,400lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 3,400lbs.
19′ Escape, with a dry weight of 2,950lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 4,100lbs.
21′ Escape, with a dry weight of 3,210lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 4,510lbs.
Escape 5.0TA with a dry weight of 3,885lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 5,185lbs.
Depending on the Escape Travel Trailer you are interested in towing, your tow vehicle should have a towing capacity of between 4,000lbs for the 17′ and up to 5,500lbs for the Escape 5.0TA Fifth Wheel.
Please note these weights can vary depending on several variables therefore we encourage you to allow for a safety margin between the estimated towing weight of any Escape trailer and the towing capacity of your tow vehicle.
Search the forum for a post called "trailer weights in the real world". Some Odyssey owners will also likely respond here with some specifics about your tow vehicle.
It sounds like you are putting first things first. Good luck!
__________________
~ “It’s absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.” Oscar Wilde ~
~ “What the human being is best at doing is interpreting all new information so that their prior conclusions remain intact.” Warren Buffett ~
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10-17-2017, 10:50 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
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intersting
guys thanks for posting this in my mind a 3500lb rated car will be about to tow anything! Manufactures also under-rate things to cover their butts. I would watch that transmission fluid carefully if it get smelly get it changed filter too. This is serious!
I would also be careful and make sure you lock out overdrive on hills. I don't understand all the mechanics of an a/transmission but I know heat is a deadly enemy!
To whoever posted on the Alaska trip we will be going next early summer been there before flew the first time with our tent. we drove back from Anchorage clear to the Yukon but there is much much more to see!
bob
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10-17-2017, 10:57 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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Agree regarding the bikes. Don't know what you had in mind, but two on the back of the trailer is an absolute upper limit, and even then they had better be light. Best would be in the rear of the van, 3rd seat folded, with a fork mount system- don't know if they would fit there or not. But then you'd have to consider the weight as additional passengers, which further reduces the tow rating and tongue weight rating. My Pilot manual has the same chart- be sure to note that the tongue weight rating drops faster than trailer weight as you add passengers or equivalent cargo.
We have a 2011 Pilot 2WD, rated 3500/350#. We travel with 4 people, 3 bicycles (aluminum framed, c.28#, 2 on the back of the trailer, 1 inside the trailer), a 10x10 canopy ( c.50#) on the front sofa of the trailer, an ice chest on the floor ( c.45#), and our clothes and personal items ( c.100#) in the back of the Pilot. We have a basic 13' Scamp- stove, furnace, & icebox, c.1750# fully loaded. We only carry about 3-4 gallons of water on the road for emergencies and one LP tank ( c.40#). The Pilot handles it all, but it is clearly working on grades and against headwinds.
Being FWD, I have also experienced wheel spin on steep grades/loose surfaces when towing. It's only happened a couple of times on campground roads, and I learned to disable the electronic stability control. If you don't, any wheel spin causes the ESC to apply brakes and throttle back the engine, bringing the whole rig to a standstill.
I don't have all the answers, but you're asking the right questions! Too many people just look at the 3500# rating and ignore the caveats. The devil is in the details, as the saying goes...
Speaking of details, you do have the optional Honda ATF cooler, right?
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10-17-2017, 11:02 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
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amazing
jon you are an amazing tt driver so much stuff so much planning. I do not know how Honda comes up with their rig pulling so much?
I am taking my edge and tt to get weighted soon. what do you think my 13f scamper weighs? we have the same outfits I have no b/room either! I would also like to know your tongue weight!
mine has an a/c on top I would take it off if I could figure out a way also!
bob
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10-17-2017, 02:08 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: Sprinter 'til I buy
Denver, CO
Posts: 944
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In addition to brute strength towing by the engine and transmission, you have braking, handling, and emergency accident avoidance figure in. I wish I had specific numbers to offer. I would suggest that going to a truck stop or grain elevator and weighing everything and everybody might be revealing.
If you are not familiar with commercial scales, it is possible to get weights for individual axles by pulling just the front axle of the tow vehicle on the scale, then both. Subtract the weight of the front from the total to get the back tow axle. You can also pull forward so just the trailer is on the scale. They charge about $10-15 to weigh you. I salute your attention to this issue.
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10-17-2017, 02:15 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp 16 ft Side Dinette
Posts: 1,279
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[QUOTE=teg_76;667469]Hi Everyone,
My family and I are interested in buying a 16' Scamp Standard Layout 4 with the standard option package. The folks at Scamp say dry weight for this will be 2100 lbs. Other options I'd like to add are a 35 lb furnace, 95 lb AC, and an upgraded fridge which would add 40 lb. This would make my dry weight 2370:]
You will be just fine. We towed our 16 ft deluxe Scamp all over the US and Canada, including the Alaska Hwy, with no problems, except, for adding a sway bar.
You will need a high rise ball mount, and if needed drill a second pin hole in it to move the ball as close as possible to your rear bumper. Add a snubber to reduce play between the ball mount and receiver.
Learn how to downshift on steeper grades, both up and down.
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10-18-2017, 08:34 PM
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#10
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Junior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: 2021 Scamp
Oregon
Posts: 23
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Hi CivilGuy,
Thanks for all the great info. I really like the Escape Trailers. I live in Oregon so I'd be able to pick it up from the factory myself if I were to order one. We would need the 17B option though and it may be a little out of my weight/price class. Interesting though that it said the fully loaded estimate is 3400 lbs. I saw the trailer weights in the world spreadsheet. Generally though weights are fully loaded, right?
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10-18-2017, 08:36 PM
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#11
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Junior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: 2021 Scamp
Oregon
Posts: 23
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Thanks Murray. I tend to want to be conservative on the weights too. The last think I want to do is wreck my van. I think if I go without the A/C on the Scamp 16 it could help me out a lot, as it weighs about 100lbs. I think I could also skip the bathroom but my wife really wants one.
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10-18-2017, 08:38 PM
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#12
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Junior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: 2021 Scamp
Oregon
Posts: 23
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Thanks Jon. I think we could just bring the kids bikes and be fine. Is your bikerack on your Scamp the one that comes with it as an option, or is it after market?
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10-18-2017, 08:42 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: 2021 Scamp
Oregon
Posts: 23
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Thanks Jon in AZ. No I don't have any tow package on my Odyssey yet. I would make sure I have the transmission cooler though. Ideally I'd have a nice F150, and a new Scamp/Escape/Casita ready to go next summer. Doing all of that is out of my price range though, so I'm hoping my Odyssey can do the job. If I decide I'll use the Odyssey as my TV than I'll probably look into a new Scamp.
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10-18-2017, 08:48 PM
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#14
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Junior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: 2021 Scamp
Oregon
Posts: 23
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Thanks Tom72. I'll be looking for those scales once I get a trailer.
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10-18-2017, 08:49 PM
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#15
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Junior Member
Name: Tom
Trailer: 2021 Scamp
Oregon
Posts: 23
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That's reassuring Wayne. The folks at Scamp said that I should be fine towing with the Odyssey. We're not necessarily light/efficient packers so we'll have to work on that.
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10-19-2017, 12:00 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Trailer: Fiber Stream 1982 16 ft
Posts: 362
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I know that there are many people that will suggest the vehicle is way over designed and under-rated, or European version of the car can tow more, etc. etc.
Check with your insurance company. Just as you are not necessarily covered if in an accident while driving impaired, some vehicle insurance policies are null and void if operating outside the vehicle's safety range. This happened to a friend who drove his 4x4 on a cross-slope greater than the vehicle specs, rolled it, and was NOT covered. PL/PD yes, but collision, no.
Vic
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10-19-2017, 12:27 AM
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#17
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Junior Member
Name: Jim
Trailer: Escape 17B (previous 16' Scamp)
Washington (dry side)
Posts: 24
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Couple more things...
It's a different vehicle, but I towed a 16' L4 scamp 8000 miles to Alaska and back with 2 adults, bicycles and gear with a 2004 Odyssey. No problems but..
1. Besides tow weight, check allowed trailer front cross section in odyssey specs. Mine is exceeded but we always took it a lot slower than the engine was capable of pulling.
2. Make sure you have a full size spare. Unfortunately it adds more weight but you don't really want to tow on a mini spare.
Transmission cooler has already been mentioned but I'll repeat because it is important.
Jim.
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10-19-2017, 12:45 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Name: Kelly
Trailer: Trails West
Oregon
Posts: 3,046
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You can always put bike racks on top of the tow vehicle
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10-19-2017, 05:55 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
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worry
I don't dwell on this stuff. if I can get a trailer hitch on it off the camper goes.
As mentioned you adjust your speed to your load and drive safely this means not driving 70 to 80 on tires rated 65mph. Way more important to me!
I have never understood trying to be a speed freak towing a trailer. Be safe out there!!
bob
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10-19-2017, 05:59 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
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I have camped all over Europe never saw an accident never saw a tug broke down on the highway.
People from all over Europe tow to Italy and other countries with very small cars no not a Fiat but I saw lots of other stuff.
I saw amazing things rigged on campers to place them just perfectly on a sight I saw cars pulling trailers packed with tents and stuff for a 2 month stay.
Just get out there and stop worrying!!
bob
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