Towing with a older convertible car? - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-28-2013, 12:47 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by arlon View Post
I'm sure the intent of that is to protect the insurance company from street racers not RVrs and even then they don't stand a chance of making it stick. Common sense is probably the best guide.

OP, get your convertible and enjoy some camping while you can.
----------------------------------

My original question to Allstate was concerning a Motorhome towing a trailer with a H/D Motorcycle thereupon. I don't think that they were concerned about my vehicle street racing.

I looked for a listing of Insurance companies that don't mind paying accident claims without investigation and I found these companies. "---"

While very few of these incidents may ever wind up in court, (As did the cited case involving a fatality) just the loss of insurance coverage is a significant deterrent to me anyway.

BTW: Most experienced lawyers call most criminal and civil cases in court a "Crapshoot" at best. As I have never heard of an expert wittness for "Common Sense", you would be on your own with that as a defense, either with your insurance company or the courts..

Stayin' Inside one box to keep out of that last box.....
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
My feeling is that people are more likely to find an adequate tow vehicle than they are to find good information on knowlege about how to tow.
A good point but I believe the most important factor is the set up. This is where the high majority of folks get it wrong, or less than optimal.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:52 PM   #59
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Sorry to be a wet blanket, but:

I have to admit that one of the things that keeps my 1965 Falcon wagon at home is the greatly increased safety of newer vehicles in the event of a crash. That chest-piercing steering column especially troubles me...

I've been driving for over forty years without an accident, and when the law of averages catches up with me I hope to be in more of a "safety pod" than these (very cool!) old vehicles are designed to be.

Francesca

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Warning!

The following video contains images of an original unrestored '59 Bel Air being utterly destroyed. Viewing may cause serious cases of "the vapors" among collectors and other vulnerable people...

F.

Crash Test 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air VS. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu (Frontal Offset) IIHS 50th Anniversary - YouTube
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:52 PM   #60
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I agree with Norm's comments in #55 because they also seem to say, at least to me, that with so many inexperienced/untrained peeps towing it's even more important to stick with the published weight & towing parameters for a vehicle.

When you add poor driving skills to an over weight tow and throw in under inflated tires you have a perfect storm for that next accident.

But them again, at least 80% of American drivers consider themselve to be "Above Average" drivers, a statistical impossibility.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:52 PM   #61
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I'm not naming names, but some people get their kicks out of intimidating other people with hints of dire consequences for ignoring their sage wisdom.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:11 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
I have to admit that one of the things that keeps my 1965 Falcon wagon at home is the greatly increased safety of newer vehicles in the event of a crash. That chest-piercing steering column especially troubles me...


A very good point Francesca and I agree. I would luv to have a classic for towing and had my eye on one, (a diesel) but the lack of safety features was a turn off. No air bags etc is a biggy.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:33 PM   #63
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Bob,

To be more direct, we spend a lot of time telling people they need a substantial tow vehicle, often more than I believe is necessary. Almost, in a sense, saying if you get the right tow vehicle you'll be OK.

I've met two people, newly towing with the 'right' tow vehicle who have rolled their trailers, none of them small trailer 'towers'. To me it's clearly obvious that most accidents, car or trailer, are not the fault of the powered unit but rather the driver, conditions, driver knowledge......

We all know a lot of drivers who have crashed in a perfectly good car or truck, meeting all standards.

My point to be newbies is to spend a lot of time with experienced RVers, talking to them about the towing process no matter what their tow vehicle.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:00 PM   #64
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I'm not naming names, but some people get their kicks out of intimidating other people with hints of dire consequences for ignoring their sage wisdom.
-------------------------------------------------------

As for this writer, if I get but one person to do the right thing and it prevents that accident, I'm good.....

When a 17 year old girl dies in your arms because of an accident caused by her boy friend's father ignoring several warnings about safe vehicle operation (he ignored the infamous Firestone 500 tire recall notice because he knew that the tires were OK, and one came apart at 55 MPH) one gets much more critical about all aspects of vehicle and road safety.

Her last words to me were, "Mommy, it hurts"...

BTW: The courts found the Father liable for her death in the civil suit that followed.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:18 PM   #65
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.......

BTW: The courts found the Father liable for her death in the civil suit that followed.
Gee Bob, I wasn't even thinking of you. I know that you would never put something dark out there to scare people.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:30 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas G. View Post
Going back to my original query (above), I would be interested to read about any case where someone was successfully sued.
Have a hunch Tom if you sent any one of these lawyers an email they might provide you with a case or two. Just Google for a lawyer who claims to specialize in the RV accidents in your area


Peter Thompson & Associates - Portland
Davis Law Group - Seattle


Personally this is one situation where I really do wish that we in North America actually would follow the practises of Europe. It is my understanding that in Europe the police do use the vehicle manufactures towing specifications/capacity as stated in the cars manual to determine if the vehicle is overloaded or not. Would sure cut down on the number of times this same old argument comes up here.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:52 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas G. View Post
Quote:
Handling Requirements
Standard J2807 specifies that an understeering handling attitude must be maintained up to at least 0.4g cornering without a weight distributing hitch. With a weight distributing hitch (which transfers vertical load from the tow vehicle's rear wheels to its front wheels), an understeering attitude must be maintained up to only 0.3g cornering.
Another equally important component of the J2807 Standards is:

"To assure that the tow vehicle's structure is capable of towing a particular trailer load, standard J2807 specifies that no more than 5 degrees of permanent angular deformation at hitch attachment points is acceptable. Also, the highest experienced trailer hitch attachment force must be withstood for five seconds without significant loss of load (no structural deflection)."

Read more: Tow Ratings Finally Pass the Sniff Test - The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) - Automobile Magazine


It is very possible that the above is one of the reasons behind the recent towing capacity down grading of a number of the small crossover type vehicles that were popular towing vechiles here but some folks here have also indicated that they have had sagging rear issues with in the past
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
----------------------------------

My original question to Allstate was concerning a Motorhome towing a trailer with a H/D Motorcycle thereupon. I don't think that they were concerned about my vehicle street racing.

I looked for a listing of Insurance companies that don't mind paying accident claims without investigation and I found these companies. "---"

While very few of these incidents may ever wind up in court, (As did the cited case involving a fatality) just the loss of insurance coverage is a significant deterrent to me anyway.

BTW: Most experienced lawyers call most criminal and civil cases in court a "Crapshoot" at best. As I have never heard of an expert wittness for "Common Sense", you would be on your own with that as a defense, either with your insurance company or the courts..

Stayin' Inside one box to keep out of that last box.....


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Old 03-28-2013, 04:06 PM   #69
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I agree with much of what Norm speaks of when he talks about the general lack of training and therefore the questionable level of skill many drivers have. Add the fact that anybody with a driver license can hook up and tow down the public roads, then for sure, we are looking at a compromised situation. At the very least we should encourage people to think in terms of having good skill sets for driving and pulling a trailer. Unfortunately, that side of the discussion is largely subjective, and as Bob points out, the majority of people "think" they are good drivers.
So that leaves us in forums such as this to try to bring a semblance of safety to the discussion by pointing out weight limits, and accepted "hardware safety devices" ( brakes, correct hitching, proper tires and inflation, etc ).

If I were running the zoo, I would in fact require much stricter skill level testing for all drivers licenses, including requiring an endorsement for trailer towing.

As an example, when my daughter was 17 years old, I took her to Arizona for a multi-day teenage defensive driving course at the Bob Bondurant school of performance driving. Expensive, but well worth it, as she acquired skills in just a few days that might otherwise take years of practice to try to figure out on her own.

To get back on the topic of the thread, I feel it's wise for anyone who is looking tow their trailer to study and understand as much as they can about both the hardware and skills to drive/tow. If it makes sense to use a given piece of hardware, such as a WD hitch, or supplemental air suspension, for your combination of tow/trailer, then it sure makes sense to research the different options available to you, and come to the best understanding of the how and why they work, and their limitations.
Bottom line is this whole RV experience is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, so making it as stress free sure makes sense to me.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:38 PM   #70
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This topic isn't isolated to only RV'ing. In the trucker industry it used to be if you drove a truck before it was fairly easy to get a job. Now they inquire if you have 4-season driving skills. Puzzled me until I realized some would drive during the summer, then work a non-driving job during bad weather. So one would say they have been driving for 20 years, but still not have the skills or experience of snow and ice driving.

There is a priority scale to contend with. I guess we would assume the "driver" is the first concern and then the equipment. As I said in another thread, I drove for a company that violated all the safety concerns, so I quit after three months. And I drove for another company that frauded the highway laws as in passing scale requirements, etc. Once I realized they expected me to break the laws, I quit. It's the drivers head (responsibility).

I have five years of four-season cross country driving but my first travel trailer trip will be an extra cautious one. Until I and the trailer get to know one another. And will have to give the tow time to get acquainted with the towee. After all they will be joined at the hip.
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