Towing with a older convertible car?

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

CanAm may also have/need a disclaimer such as "This hitch installation is for Off-Hiway Use Only, Not for use on public hiways".

I have a Can Am custom hitch installation. Never heard of such a document.

My dad had an RV sales business back in the 60's. All cars that came in got custom fabricated hitch installs. No waivers then either.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

I've heard this claims of litigation frequently here, but I'd be interested in any links documenting actual successful lawsuits involving, say, some one towing a 1500 pound trailer with a car rated for 1000 pounds.

It always starts with one. Thomas are you willing to be the ONE? I'm not. Nor would I ever want to be in a position to encourage others to be the ONE. Guilt lasts a lifetime.

YMMV

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

It wasn't an endorsement Brian, just the fact someone DID pull a trailer with a convertible and the owner mentioned the big ole white box was all she could see behind her.

Sorry if I misinterpreted, but this comment (with my emphasis added), instead of any expression of caution at all, sounded like a big endorsement:

Originally Posted by Donna D.

And yeah, I've met them and yes they towed with a Corvette (safely)...

Personally, I would not stick my neck out and label that rig as safe... although it might be. Perhaps the intention was just to say that they have been towing without incident so far.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

It always starts with one. Thomas are you willing to be the ONE? I'm not. Nor would I ever want to be in a position to encourage others to be the ONE. Guilt lasts a lifetime.

YMMV

I don't get your point. I've never encouraged anyone to do anything unsafe, nor would I.

[Brian B-P]

This is supposed to be about towing with an older convertible, and I do get that Donna's example was of a convertible, which just happened to be a relatively new sports car rather than anything like the old big cars that were the subject of the original post.

But one more shot at the Corvette issue...

Originally Posted by MC1

It was once explained that if you used physics to design and build the perfect tow vehicle the resulting vehicle would be a Corvette! The physics would be low centre of gravity, power, brakes, state of the art suspension, etc.

Sure, except for the short wheelbase and long rear overhang (basic physics stuff), plus the more specific technical issues such as lack of suspension compliance, too-short-sidewall tires, lack of planned hitch mounting points, inadequate transmission cooling... all the sorts of things we rake other small car owners over the coals for having.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Did anyone else notice that the older Buick was is "Tail Dragging" and the tongue on the Airstream was nose down. Not a very good example of how to do it right.

Hmmm... car and trailer both look level to me, but I note that the body style has a falling character line that make the car look tail-low, and the trailer has a rising rear body lower edge that may make it look nose-low.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Roy in TO

Umm, is that not a 1970 in the pictured ad? Not sure what the difference would be between towing with regular body or convertible if the hitch is attached to a continuous frame in either situation.

Then again, maybe I am missing something.

I stand corrected!

And here's a heads up for the O.P.:

There's a 1970 Impala ragtop beaut for sale right this very minute in the Bronx, New York City. Only $26,000.00, and less than 80,000 miles on the odometer.

Sweet!

Francesca

[Vivian L]

There are a large group of "old car nuts" who travel from one coast of Canada to the other every ten years or so and about two thirds of them haul various trailers with their antiques. In 2000 we joined them, hauling our little boler with our 1963 "un-restored" Pontiac Parisienne Convertible but a lot of them hauled much bigger units and nobody had any serious problems hauling that distance and home again.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

But one more shot at the Corvette issue...

Sure, except for the short wheelbase and long rear overhang (basic physics stuff), plus the more specific technical issues such as lack of suspension compliance, too-short-sidewall tires, lack of planned hitch mounting points, inadequate transmission cooling... all the sorts of things we rake other small car owners over the coals for having.

The science of towing is complex and many folks question the long list of components, variables, etc.

[MC1]

Arthur, found another cool convert in my scrapbook....

[arlon]

Sounds like a lot of folks are forgetting that the family sedan WAS the tow vehicle of choice for MANY years. Many years when trailers were a lot heavier than todays little fiberglass jobs. Wasn't until the late 70's early 80's that a truck started to be everyones second "car". Most full size sedans of the day where probably better equiped to tow than the 1/2 ton truck was. I know my dad towed a beast of a boat all over the country with a Dodge Monaco (full size, 383 4bbl) and class II hitch. He had a 67 Ford 1/2 ton that never saw a trailer because it had such poor traction. It was always the family car in front of the boat. Besides who had a crew cab back then for the kids?


Don't underestimate the Corvette as a tow vehicle. Some folks obviously know very little about them. They are built from the lug nuts up to be punished. A 3/4 ton truck isn't as "over built" as a Corvette.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

I've heard this claims of litigation frequently here, but I'd be interested in any links documenting actual successful lawsuits involving, say, some one towing a 1500 pound trailer with a car rated for 1000 pounds.

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I doubt if you would get a ticket for just towing overweight, but in the event of an accident the issue may change rapidly.

Several years back I questioned my Ins Co of some 40+ years (Allstate) about traveling and/or towing in excess of specified weight limits, either based on the TV or the towed trailer, and I received a boiler plate reply that was a clip out of their standard auto policy that stated that intentionally modifying or operating the insured vehicle in a manner other than that specified by the manufacturer, could result in suspension of any or all coverage in the event of a claim.

Just last year (in La Canada, CA I believe) a truck driver was sentenced to prison for intentionally driving an overweight truck that had an accident that led to a fatality. The key point was that the truck was overweight. I believe the actual charge was neglent driving leading to death.

With those thoughts in mind, I wouldn't want to be a test case that claimed innocence because I was within the limits set by my own "Common Sense", "Joe's Custom Trailer Hitches" or "European Specifications" for the same (?) vehicle.

[arlon]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

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Several years back I questioned my Ins Co of some 40+ years (Allstate) about traveling and/or towing in excess of specified weight limits, either based on the TV or the towed trailer, and I received a boiler plate reply that was a clip out of their standard auto policy that stated that intentionally modifying or operating the insured vehicle in a manner other than that specified by the manufacturer, could result in suspension of any or all coverage in the event of a claim.

I'm sure the intent of that is to protect the insurance company from street racers not RVrs and even then they don't stand a chance of making it stick. Common sense is probably the best guide.

OP, get your convertible and enjoy some camping while you can.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

I've heard this claims of litigation frequently here, but I'd be interested in any links documenting actual successful lawsuits involving, say, some one towing a 1500 pound trailer with a car rated for 1000 pounds.

Going back to my original query (above), I would be interested to read about any case where someone was successfully sued.

Now that the industry has settled on procedure J2807, it would be possible to demonstrate towing safety by meeting these safety related metrics:

Handling Requirements
Standard J2807 specifies that an understeering handling attitude must be maintained up to at least 0.4g cornering without a weight distributing hitch. With a weight distributing hitch (which transfers vertical load from the tow vehicle's rear wheels to its front wheels), an understeering attitude must be maintained up to only 0.3g cornering.
Braking Requirements
The test vehicle and trailer must stay within a 11.5-foot wide traffic lane during stopping tests. The parking brake must be capable of holding the rig on 12-percent up and down grades.
Stopping distance requirements from an initial 20 mph without use of trailer brakes are:

• In 35 feet or less with a TWR of 3000 pounds or less and no trailer brake requirement.
• In 45 feet or less with a TWR of 3000 pounds or less and a trailer brake requirement.
• In 80 feet or less for TWRs above 3000 pounds.

[honda03842]

We spend a lot of time writing about tow ratings and little time writing about what makes a good tow vehicle. Since we've written about Can-AM RV, I appreciate that at least some of their articles discuss the characteristics of a good tow vehicle...about tires, wheel base, distance from the ball to rear axle, hp/torque pwe lb of trailer and so on.

It is apparant that at least part of the tow rating relates to marketing issues, either pro or con, and in some measure, have not much to do with their actual towing ability.

I like the Can-AM articles but my experience so far indicates that the driver, the driver's condition, towing knowledge ...... have as much or more to do with trailer accidents than the tow vehicle. Our tow vehicle has never had an issue towing but oversights, lack of experience, inadequate knowledge are another matter.

My feeling is that people are more likely to find an adequate tow vehicle than they are to find good information on knowlege about how to tow.

Very often in problem solving, i.e making towing safer, we focus on the not the most important factor, but one that lends it self to legislation or again in some measure, arbitrary rules.

If my goal was to improve towing safety, I would begin with the 'towers' education and not the tow vehicle. I so frequently read about "legal libiality issue", actually a realitively rare situation for small fiberglass trailers, to my knowledge no one has reported one yet for a fiberglass trailer.

In our career as RVers, every failure or near failure, was in main due to the lack of knowledge or action on the part of the 'tower'. I suspect this is most often the case. I can honestly say I spent time reading everything I could find on the topic of towing. It is very difficult to find all the bits of information that make for good towing.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by honda03842

We spend a lot of time writing about tow ratings and little time writing about what makes a good tow vehicle. .......

Good post Norm. We have special driver's licenses for motorcycles, and for heavier commercial operators, but the erroneous assumption is that anyone with a valid driver's license knows how to safely tow. I'm no fan of more government regulation, but having the resources to learn how to safely tow would be a good start.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by arlon

I'm sure the intent of that is to protect the insurance company from street racers not RVrs and even then they don't stand a chance of making it stick. Common sense is probably the best guide.

OP, get your convertible and enjoy some camping while you can.

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My original question to Allstate was concerning a Motorhome towing a trailer with a H/D Motorcycle thereupon. I don't think that they were concerned about my vehicle street racing.

I looked for a listing of Insurance companies that don't mind paying accident claims without investigation and I found these companies. "---"

While very few of these incidents may ever wind up in court, (As did the cited case involving a fatality) just the loss of insurance coverage is a significant deterrent to me anyway.

BTW: Most experienced lawyers call most criminal and civil cases in court a "Crapshoot" at best. As I have never heard of an expert wittness for "Common Sense", you would be on your own with that as a defense, either with your insurance company or the courts..

Stayin' Inside one box to keep out of that last box.....

[MC1]

Originally Posted by honda03842

My feeling is that people are more likely to find an adequate tow vehicle than they are to find good information on knowlege about how to tow.

A good point but I believe the most important factor is the set up. This is where the high majority of folks get it wrong, or less than optimal.

[Francesca Knowles]

I have to admit that one of the things that keeps my 1965 Falcon wagon at home is the greatly increased safety of newer vehicles in the event of a crash. That chest-piercing steering column especially troubles me...

I've been driving for over forty years without an accident, and when the law of averages catches up with me I hope to be in more of a "safety pod" than these (very cool!) old vehicles are designed to be.

Francesca

P.S.

Warning!

The following video contains images of an original unrestored '59 Bel Air being utterly destroyed. Viewing may cause serious cases of "the vapors" among collectors and other vulnerable people...

F.

Crash Test 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air VS. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu (Frontal Offset) IIHS 50th Anniversary - YouTube

[Bob Miller]

I agree with Norm's comments in #55 because they also seem to say, at least to me, that with so many inexperienced/untrained peeps towing it's even more important to stick with the published weight & towing parameters for a vehicle.

When you add poor driving skills to an over weight tow and throw in under inflated tires you have a perfect storm for that next accident.

But them again, at least 80% of American drivers consider themselve to be "Above Average" drivers, a statistical impossibility.