Towing with a pick up truck....

[cpaharley2008]

For those who tow their trailer with a pick up truck and find that they can not open their tailgate while hooked up, there is a solution. I purchased one of these
Jack-E-Up
and installed today, took about 15 minutes. I can now use a standard stinger or my Andersen set up and still open my tailgate. Some pictures of the install, later will post after hook up.

[cpaharley2008]

two more, notice I had to notch my propane cover

[trainjunkie]

Interesting idea. Wouldn't work for me since I have a Fastway® Flip™ automatic jack foot on the bottom of my jack. Instead, I use this to move the ball out enough to clear the tailgate. I drilled new holes through it to get it so it just clears, about a 10-inch extension. Works great.

12" Hitch Extender

[cpaharley2008]

I tried that approach but felt it created an unsafe towing set up, the longer the stinger, the less capacity and more chance of sway. This way I can use a short stinger and stay within the factory specifications for the hitch and trailer and truck.

[trainjunkie]

Frankly, I was worried about whether the towing characteristics/stability would change when I first got it. But I towed my 17-ft Bigfoot from California to Alaska last winter with this set-up and it was no different than without it (except that I could get the tailgate open). I'm a few days from making the same trip south with the same set-up.

I would be leery about using it with a larger, higher tongue-weight trailer though.

[honda03842]

Moving the ball further away from the rear axle of the tow vehicledefinitely has a negative effect on safe towing. Does this move you out of the "towing safely window'? Maybe not out of the window but definitely the wrong direction.

[trainjunkie]

If you were at the ragged edge of capacities and such, it certainly could be a problem. But I tow a diminutive 17-foot Bigfoot with a full-size V8 Toyota Tundra 4X4. I've got towing capacity to spare.

That being said, I was concerned that the towing characteristics might change with this extension, but it tows as straight as an arrow and as stable as can be. I don't use a WD hitch or a sway control device either.

I was reluctant to post anything about this extension until I used it a little while. I now have 5,000 miles + using it in all sorts of conditions with no issues whatsoever. From the driver's seat you cannot tell whether it is being used or not. Still, I understand that YMMV depending on your trailer and tug. Just sharing my personal experience.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by trainjunkie

That being said, I was concerned that the towing characteristics might change with this extension, but it tows as straight as an arrow and as stable as can be. I don't use a WD hitch or a sway control device either.

Appreciate your post and comments.
Please consider the use of a simple sway control device. There are circumstances out there on the road that can blindside anybody and that is when the safety devices kick in.

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by MC1

Appreciate your post and comments.
Please consider the use of a simple sway control device. There are circumstances out there on the road that can blindside anybody and that is when the safety devices kick in.

Amen! On our last trip I was going a little faster than I like (70 mph) hit a rough patch of road maybe swerved a little and before I knew it the tail was wagging the dog. And I drive a full size, long wheelbase pickup truck ahead of the Scamp. I reached down and hit the trailer brakes and little and things eased out but I had a few uncomforatable moments. I plan on adding some sway control before I head out on any long trips again. Looks like cheap insurance.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by MC1

Appreciate your post and comments.
Please consider the use of a simple sway control device. There are circumstances out there on the road that can blindside anybody and that is when the safety devices kick in.

There are at least two schools of though concerning anti sway bars. One it's a safety item. Two is masks a real problem.
I believe that the safest and best thing you can do is make sure your trailer sway point is well above your traveling speed. Do the things you can control and you wont be so likely to have sway.
The ball and socket connection between the tow vehicle and the trailer are designed for easy pivoting, making the combination easier to negotiate corners. When a sway bar is introduced you stiffen or reduce the freedom of the ball and socket connection. This increased the side loading of trailer tires and depending on the tires and size of tow possibly the tow tires too.
With any reduction in traction, we pavement and etc., the trailer tires can break free of the pavement. The trailer then becomes a big pendulum and when it hits the far end of it's ark yank the tow around. Not a lot of fun.

My point is be careful with anti sway devices, they can be more dangerous than not having them.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Timber Wolf

Amen! On our last trip I was going a little faster than I like (70 mph) hit a rough patch of road maybe swerved a little and before I knew it the tail was wagging the dog. And I drive a full size, long wheelbase pickup truck ahead of the Scamp. I reached down and hit the trailer brakes and little and things eased out but I had a few uncomforatable moments. I plan on adding some sway control before I head out on any long trips again. Looks like cheap insurance.

For many trailer 70 mph is probably getting pretty close to the sway speed. The answer might be to first slow down, second make sure the towing dynamics are as good as possible, (do what you can to raise the sway point)

I believe that keeping things well away from the point where sway can happen is the safest thing to do.

[trainjunkie]

What Bryon said. I do not tow at 70 although I have run up to that speed to see how the trailer tracked. Straight as an arrow, even when changing lanes. More importantly though, I prefer to keep things as simple as possible. On my bi-annual treks between Alaska and California, the fewer things there are to fail or break en-route, the better. Plus, everything on or around the tongue gets absolutely hammered on every trip. I would probably have to replace the sway control after each trip, if it even made it that far.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

My point is be careful with anti sway devices, they can be more dangerous than not having them.

This is a good point Byron. Any anti sway device needs to be the correct one for the application and it needs to be installed and adjusted properly. Also note some are better than others.

Quality anti sway devices are made to last a long time. Our dual cams on our Reese Hitch are 40 years old and work as good as day one.

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

There are at least two schools of though concerning anti sway bars. One it's a safety item. Two is masks a real problem.

I subscribe to..... One it's a safety item.

Real rig/sway problems should be dealt with in a responsible manner.

[honda03842]

Mike,

I want to dispel the idea that an anti-sway bar is a severe wear item

We have had the same anti-sway bar for 7 years. We travel over 7 months a year and have towed across Labrador when the Trans Labrador was a 1,000 mile dirt road. Outside of a little rust the anti-sway bar functions as well as the day we installed it.

It is a rather simple mechanism and really doesn't have a lot of wear parts. The most severe workout for the anti-sway bar seems to be when we back into a site.

We have towed a few 1,000 miles without one and virtually never had any sway. Our top speed is usually 62 mph (under our tire's limit).

I installed it when a more experienced, long time trailer 'tower' suggested it might be valuable in an emergency and only cost about $50.

On our trailer it's Ginny's job to connect it and tighten it. It literally takes a minute.

I agree it's purpose is NOT to 'control' every day sway.

In a NM wind storm the anti-sway bar served as an anchor to hold the Sat dish tripod in place, an unlisted multi-use item.......

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by MC1

\

I subscribe to..... One it's a safety item.

Real rig/sway problems should be dealt with in a responsible manner.

I also subscribe to safety. Safety is probably the most import thing.

However, this is exactly where the debate is. Is it a safety item or a masking an unsafe condition item?

[trainjunkie]

Boy, this thread sure took on a life of its own. I'll just say this. Everyone is different and every circumstance is different. I'd say the vast majority of travel trailers do not have any anti-sway device and do not need one. I've towed thousands of miles through some of the harshest conditions you can imagine and I just don't see a need for an added piece of hardware that may or may not provide any benefit at some point but may turn into a on-the-road repair item or a heavy maintenance item.

Norm, on that note, I don't think an anti sway device is a severe wear item under most normal circumstances. But in my case, it would get hammered. I replace my tongue jack, safety chains, and ball locking pin every other trip. My tongue and frame gets gravel blasted down to the bare metal on every single trip, requiring it to be refinished twice a year. I'm constantly cleaning and lubricating the ball and socket. Anything in that area of the trailer, plus the axle and front edges of the back bumper get completely hammered and stripped down to bare metal after only one trip.

This year I'm going to try POR-15 on the frame, coupler, bumper, etc. to see if I can go at least a whole year without refinishing everything. But yeah, I'm pretty sure an anti-sway device, given its vulnerable location on the A-frame, would just be one more thing I'd have to replace every year.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by trainjunkie

Boy, this thread sure took on a life of its own. I'll just say this. Everyone is different and every circumstance is different. I'd say the vast majority of travel trailers do not have any anti-sway device and do not need one. I've towed thousands of miles through some of the harshest conditions you can imagine and I just don't see a need for an added piece of hardware that may or may not provide any benefit at some point but may turn into a on-the-road repair item or a heavy maintenance item.

I have happily towed for years over thousands of miles without an anti sway bar as well and never until recently wanted one. I do take the time to make sure the trailer I am towing is loaded and connected correctly in order to achieve that solid tow feeling I want at speeds and in driving conditions that I normally tow in - which pretty well covers most weather as I tow in winter as well.

I added an anti sway bar to my current set up due to the things you have no control over. There are situations that can happen while towing that you just can't test your set up for ahead of time.

I have had two totally unforeseen situations come up, of the type that leaves you wondering how in the world did I get out of that alive. One was with my old tug - heading down a steep mountain pass the gravel truck ahead dumped his full load - strange but true - resulting in cars swerving every which way on the road ahead of me - some flying off into the ditches on either side, another ended up sideways in front of me. Just hitting the brakes wasn't an option due to the big semi a couple of feet of the back of the trailer trying to stay out of everyones way as well. I did not add an anti sway bar after that incident as I figured it was a one off that would never happen again & besides the trailer didn't sway. The second situation happened early this summer with my current tug - the semi I was in the middle of passing lost a flat bed trailer he had stacked up high on his trailer bed - the result of it having hit the overpass we had just gone under.

Yes having a well stowed trailer and what I did and did not do played a part in why both situations turned out as well as they did but most people would suggest that luck also played a really *big* part in it. I am not willing to bet that I could be equally as lucky if I had to do such avoidance moves a third time and decided that having a little something extra on my set up that will if ever needed be there to possible help avoid the big dreaded wag is better than nothing.

If I rarely traveled at 65mph or on busy freeways I might continue to think I could live without the added insurance of an anti sway bar as well.

If the anti sway bar is installed correctly on a well loaded trailer there should be no binding or restriction of the free movement of the main ball under normal towing conditions. Yes it will bind on tight turns - such as when getting into a tight camping spot - but thats easily remedied by simply releasing the pressure control handle on the anti sway bar.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I also subscribe to safety. Safety is probably the most import thing.

However, this is exactly where the debate is. Is it a safety item or a masking an unsafe condition item?

If someone says my trailer swayed every time I went over 60 mph or a big semi passed me or there was a side wind and they added an anti sway bar and said it now tows great - I would as I suspect you would Byron suggest they are simple masking an unsafe condition.

On the other hand I know we have a number of folks here who have logged a lot of miles towing and would have no concerns about a semi passing them or a side wind with or without the anti sway bar on the trailer who simple have them on their trailers as an additional safety item... nothing more. Like myself they are not counting on them to keep them out of trouble as the folks in the first example are.

[cpaharley2008]

Back to my original post, I tested out this product last weekend and it works flawlessly. After hooking up the trailer and removal of the jack, the entire truck bed is accessible via the tailgate for those last minute things. Upon arrival at the cg you merely slip the jack back into the holder, line up three bolts and lower the jack to unhook.

[mary and bob]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

line up three bolts and lower the jack to unhook.

Jim; could you explain about lining up the bolts please. Not sure what you mean there. Interesting device, thanks for posting about it.