towing with chains... - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #15
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Here is a site for some applications and accessories like this
Snow Tire Chains Ramp
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post

Sometimes terminology gets ya. Here's my understanding of AWD and 4WD. AWD meaning "all wheel drive" which uses several schemes to control which wheel is actually driving. 4WD "Four Wheel Drive" is drivable switchable from rear wheel drive to 4WD. Which means the front axle can be activated or not. One of the differences is that 4WD has at least 2 wheels driving all the time, one at the front and one at the rear. Since wheels are not all the same diameter it's impossible to have both drive wheels turning at the same speed at the axle. Unlike AWD where only one wheel is driving at any given moment. The 4WD needs the ability for wheels to slip a bit and AWD does not. AWD can be full time and 4WD cannot be full time.
That's my understanding.
FYI my truck is 4 Wheel Drive (4 X 4). So was my previous tow and previous vehicle before that.
Awd can be selectable, and there were also plenty of factory full time 4x4's (ford, chevy, dodge all did with np203 t-cases), that were not selectable. Yes, some 4x4's can only have two wheels driving, limited slip can help with that, lockers or spools guarantee they all turn.

I have never seen just one wheel turning in my all wheel drive. I've seen one quit momentarily, and that's it. The entire point of awd is that one wheel ISN'T the only one powering the car.

As for chains, if you need them on the tow vehicle, you need them on the trailer.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #17
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I've towed extensively in the winter, mostly in the Canadian Rockies and interior BC mountains and hardly ever had to use chains. I carry chains for the rear drive wheels of the tow vehicle (4wd), but have yet to need them.

If law requires you to use them, use them on the rear drive wheels and if need be carry a set for your trailer, however, given the crap that passes for trailer tires, I'd be reluctant to put chains on them if not legally required.

Look for 'radial chains' or 'cable chains' if you are going to use chains.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #18
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As for chains, if you need them on the tow vehicle, you need them on the trailer.
Not sure why you would need them on the trailer, except to aid in braking. All the times I chained up when towing a trailer (albeit larger than our TTs), I never needed, or used, them on the trailer, though I have never been on a road that required them either.

One thing to remember, that when towing chained up, your speed is also drastically reduced. If never got beyond 50 km/hr (30 mph), otherwise the ride was rough, and it caused undo wear on the tires and vehicle.

Unless I was pressed to actually have to go where chains are required, I simply would avoid it.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:37 PM   #19
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First off, it depends on when you consider you need chains. I from North Dakota. Our farm pickups were all two wheel drive. We towed all winter long, and didnt use chains once.

I have used them on my 4x4, and it wouldn't even move an inch without them at that point.

I prefer proper tires and taking my time at that point, but if its bad enough I need to put chains on, everything is getting chains.

I've been completely stopped and had my vehicle slide sideways into the ditch. If its that bad, it better all be chained
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:46 PM   #20
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Jared, it sounds like you put chains on at the same point I do too. I have carried them in my F250 4x4 since new (11 years now), and was able to avoid using them all but a handful of times, and that was deep heavy snow, not icy conditions.
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared J View Post
Awd can be selectable, and there were also plenty of factory full time 4x4's (ford, chevy, dodge all did with np203 t-cases), that were not selectable. Yes, some 4x4's can only have two wheels driving, limited slip can help with that, lockers or spools guarantee they all turn.

I have never seen just one wheel turning in my all wheel drive. I've seen one quit momentarily, and that's it. The entire point of awd is that one wheel ISN'T the only one powering the car.

As for chains, if you need them on the tow vehicle, you need them on the trailer.
I realize this thread isn't a discussion on the mechanics of Awd and 4WD. But I do have a question for you. In the case of full time AWD how is the difference in wheel speed managed on dry pavement? For 2 wheel drive the differential manages it. But AWD and 4WD hmmm??
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:23 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post

I realize this thread isn't a discussion on the mechanics of Awd and 4WD. But I do have a question for you. In the case of full time AWD how is the difference in wheel speed managed on dry pavement? For 2 wheel drive the differential manages it. But AWD and 4WD hmmm??
Center differential.
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:46 PM   #23
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As I understand my RAV4, there is a fluid coupling between the front & rear drive train. The reason they require replacing all 4 tires at the same time & chains (if used) on both front & back even though most of the time it is a front wheel drive vehicle (over 25 MPH) is the fluid coupling will overheat if the speeds between the front & back are different for too long. I could be wrong!
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
I realize this thread isn't a discussion on the mechanics of Awd and 4WD. But I do have a question for you. In the case of full time AWD how is the difference in wheel speed managed on dry pavement? For 2 wheel drive the differential manages it. But AWD and 4WD hmmm??
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Center differential.
Yes, a centre differential,
or
direct drive to one end and drive through a clutch to the other. The direct (always driven) end is typically the only one which is driven in the 2WD version of the same vehicle. The clutch can be a viscous coupling, or a mechanical plate clutch hydraulically or electrically controlled to slip as much as necessary. Most slipping-clutch systems completely disengage the not-always-driven end under normal conditions, but under challenging conditions with a front/rear tire diameter difference may slip continuously and have wear or heating problems.

I don't think there are many centre differential systems left, although there are some.

The oddball exception is the Toyota Highlander Hybrid (and anything else following the same "4WD-i" design), which drives the front wheels all the time through the usual Synergy Hybrid Drive transmission, and drives the rear as needed by an electric motor. Because there is no mechanical link between front and rear axles, it shouldn't care about a tire diameter difference (including due to chains) except that the system could be misled into thinking the fronts are slipping and thus drive the rear excessively. This system is not intended to drive the rear all the time, and the rear drive unit can overheat if driven too hard for too long. I would check the manual or with the manufacturer of any vehicle before using chains, but especially with this electric system
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #25
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Sorry, I misread. No thought he asked about the full time 4x4.

My awd uses a viscous coupling, I believe.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Here is a site for some applications and accessories like this
Snow Tire Chains Ramp
Save your money. To install chains, one side at a time, place the non hook end over the top of the tire as if it were installed. Tie the end loops together with a piece of rope through the wheel. Slowly drive forward. The chains will caterpillar around the wheel. You want to stop when the rope has emerged behind the wheel. Now connect the hooks. I use wire ties to tie in any loose chain to avoid damage. Practice it once and you'll see how easy it is.

Next to chains the best thing you can have is a good set of radial snow tires with lots of sipes. Michelin x- ice, Glisaved, Hakkapeliitta, etc. Freezing rain and "snot" snow (step on it and it turns to ice) are the worst. That's when the town road crews put on the chains. The colder the snow, the better the traction. Stay safe. Raz
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:44 AM   #27
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Point 1) 4WD is user selectable, AWD is not. Now there are many variations with good and bad points.

Point 2) Read the owner's manual or google search. Some systems can be damaged by only installing traction aids on one axle or even the wrong axle.

Point 3) If its bad enough to need "chains" put on the they should be on at least on axle of each vehicle.

One thought to consider - if you start to slide and jack knife how are you going to apply the trailer brakes without it coming loose as well?

Jason
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:14 PM   #28
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Our vehicles have four wheels, so "all wheels" means the same thing as "four wheels", so fundamentally AWD=4WD=4X4... and there are lots of ways to implement that, with lots of associated marketing terms. Now, if you have tandem rear axles then AWD is 6WD / 6X6, but then we're not talking about tugs for lightweight moulded fiberglass travel trailers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGhost View Post
Point 1) 4WD is user selectable, AWD is not.
If only the terminology were that consistent... but it's not. You can't depend on any such simple scheme. For instance, Toyota at one point sold the very same system in the Sienna as "AWD" and in the Highlander as "4WD"; this Highlander and other vehicles have had systems with no possibility of driver selection, labelled as "4WD".

That makes this very important:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGhost View Post
Point 2) Read the owner's manual...
Absolutely!
... especially if you are considering tire chains.
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