Towing with FWD V6 vs a Jetta TDI - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-11-2013, 07:35 PM   #57
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
Well, most small engines need TB jobs at that interval, some sooner. On my Subaru, the belt job was 50% more expensive. Fuel filters aren't a major cost. And I wouldn't fret about fuel pumps on a newly bought TDI within warranty. What I'd avoid is the kind of car I've ususally bought, one turning the corner of 100K miles, out of warranty.

My buddy tows his rafting trailer, piled three feet high with heavy gear, with his TDI Sportswagen and loves it. He reports low-20s mpg when towing, and mid 40s unhitched on the open road.
__________________

__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 07:39 PM   #58
Senior Member
 
honda03842's Avatar
 
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,300
John and MC1,

Thank you both for your rapid response.

It certainly makes me wonder about the VW diesel. To me it sounds very expensive to own. I think I've been spoiled by our Honda CRV where we've had virtually no repairs in 200,000 miles. This from a person who's only spent $60-70 on repairs (a radiator fan this month) and replaced the spark plugs at 150,000 miles.

$1200 every 100,000 miles seems excessive in this day and age because of a timing belt. In the old days a timing belt/water pump change was part of the Honda maintenance cycle but no longer.

Thanks for the info.
__________________

__________________
Norm and Ginny

2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
honda03842 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 07:41 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
My mechanic, a VW & TDI specialist with racing experience, advised replacing plugs at 40K. They're not costly, so it's no big deal. But some VW owners had lots of trouble with coilpacks on the 1.8T gas engine, which might add up to a significant expense.

I'd expect the TDI to hold a growing residual value advantage over the Santa Fe as it ages. Once gain, I believe all diesels benefit from our expectations of longer service life. Because we believe that, we'll pay more for a used one. Because of that, we'll pay to repair our old one. Because it gets repaired, not totalled by some $2000 expense, the old diesel lives to drive another day.
__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 07:51 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
My mechanic advised me to avoid the TDI this time, and get the 2.0T gas engine instead. It has a timing chain with no specified service interval, and a is generally well-sorted otherwise. It's a second-gen turbo direct injection design that fixed numerous problems with VW's first version. It prefers premium gas, but will ruin fine on mid-grade.

This 2.0T is in both our cars. In the Tiguan SUV, it returns 20-28 mpg; in the GTI, 25-34 mpg. When I ran the numbers on fuel savings vs. maintenance costs (including a TB change), cost of ownership was within a few hundred per year. What I miss about the TDI was the doubly righteous feeling that I was using less fossil fuel AND keeping fine USA mechanics in gainful employment.

They're both good choices. For what the OP wants, I'd probably recommend a basic Tiguan with AWD, available used for under $20K, for a great tow car. But next time, I might choose a TDI again, too...
__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 08:37 PM   #61
Senior Member
 
honda03842's Avatar
 
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,300
The VW 2L gas engine requires premium fuel. Premium averages about 10% more per gallon in the states. Does the VW require premium because of the Turbo?

In our CRV, no turbo, we get 22 mpg towing and 28-30 on the Interstate not towing using regular fuel.

Thanks for all the info. Valuable info for our car shopping
__________________
Norm and Ginny

2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
honda03842 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
You get the most power at the the most boost. Higher octane raises the threshold of predetonation (knock), so you get more power that way. Modern engines are way to clever to let you hear them knocking. They'll gradually detune themselves as you drop octanes, and without a dyno, you'll never know what you lost.

Your Honda's mileage sounds fine, hard to improve on that without going TDI. VW's turbo engines would offer more power, especially in mountain service. These aren't like the turbo engines of the early days-- they peak in torque at 1800 rpm and hold that line level to the redline. You can nurse them along in high gears- our Tiguan loafs along close to 2000 rpm most of the time, giving quiet running with gobs of reserve. These cars have to be fit for autobahn speeds, to sell in their home market. This includes crash safety, where they excel in many tests. VW's approach seems to work- not so many Americans know it, but they're third-biggest maker in the world market, and rising.

Honda and Toyota seems to have mastered the craft of manufacturing cars with few defects and low running costs (though Toyota's stumbled a bit recently). But all modern cars are so improved on the reliability front, so that's not my criterion.

FWIW, the most important reason I buy VWs over other brands is that I fit better in their seats. Somewhere in the design studio closets at Wolfsburg, there's a design dummy of my approximate shape. During two hours at an all-brands auto show, every other brand I sampled besides Subaru had headrests tipped way too far forward for my comfort, in my posture. Sometimes, based on unique criteria, car choice becomes very simple.
__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 09:08 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
But enough about me...

Go here to check out what's been towed behind VW TDIs. This topic is up to 104 pages now, and still mostly on topic:

Show what you tow! - Page 1 - TDIClub Forums
__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #64
Senior Member
 
Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGhost View Post

And most of the GTI owners complained they weren't low enough (compared to the Euro version)

The 1000lb limit is not just DSG - VW does not recommend towing with its cars, only it's SUVs.

I can say though, with the proper hitch, that they tow far more than 1000lb easily.

Jason
That VW USA, not VWag (the actual manufacturer). Without looking it up, I believe the current gen diesels are rated at about 3,400 pounds in Germany. However, lots of people will tell you that physics are different on the other side of the ocean. Or that the VWs they sell here are totally different than the ones they tow with in Europe. Others of us know the truth.

The biggest issue is that the US-style hitches mount to completely different areas on the chassis. If possible, get a Bosal or Westfalia hitch. Yes, they cost more, but they are MUCH better hitches, and they are designed with the factory, not just an aftermarket shop.
__________________
-Jesse
SOLD! - 1984 Scamp 13 in Maryland.
mcbrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 09:42 PM   #65
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
One difference with Euro trailers -- they have a significantly longer tongue. I don't know the conversion factors or specs, but that's supposed to add stability at lower tongue weights.
__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 09:50 PM   #66
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
Speaking of hitch strength issues, mcbrew, I'd like to pose a question. How many of us here have ever had a hitch failure? How did it happen, and why? With what equipment- hitch, car and trailer?

Mechanics have told me that the lightest, cheapest Class I hitches for VWs should only be used for bike racks. Those that bolt to the sheet metal of the wheel well may fail when stressed. My Tiguan's hitch bolts to the rear bumper structure. Looks strong enough for me to trust the manufacturer's tow rating. There is a euromarket hitch design that plugs deep into the unibody for a firmer attachment. I did that for my Audi allroad, at great expense, just before its engine blew and I had to walk away from the car. I wouldn't do that again unless someone shows me several cases of Class II hitches ripping off under the load of 2500 lb trailers.
__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 09:59 PM   #67
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by John McMillin View Post
Well, most small engines need TB jobs at that interval, some sooner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John McMillin View Post
My mechanic advised me to avoid the TDI this time, and get the 2.0T gas engine instead. It has a timing chain with no specified service interval...
Good examples of my point. Both some gas engines and some diesel engines have timing belts; other gas engines and other diesel engines have timing chains... reliability and lifespan are not about the fuel type. Even within a brand and engine size, this sort of detail changes - Toyota went to belts for almost everything, but started a changeover back to chains long ago.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 11:09 PM   #68
Senior Member
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1985 Scamp 16, 2013 VW Tiguan SEL
Colorado
Posts: 153
It's certainly worth checking out the TB costs of any car you intend to keep to high mileage. The cumulative cost must be as much as the added cost of premium over midgrade, but most consumers only worry about the latter difference.
__________________
John McMillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 11:44 PM   #69
Senior Member
 
Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by John McMillin View Post
Speaking of hitch strength issues, mcbrew, I'd like to pose a question. How many of us here have ever had a hitch failure? How did it happen, and why? With what equipment- hitch, car and trailer?

Mechanics have told me that the lightest, cheapest Class I hitches for VWs should only be used for bike racks. Those that bolt to the sheet metal of the wheel well may fail when stressed. My Tiguan's hitch bolts to the rear bumper structure. Looks strong enough for me to trust the manufacturer's tow rating. There is a euromarket hitch design that plugs deep into the unibody for a firmer attachment. I did that for my Audi allroad, at great expense, just before its engine blew and I had to walk away from the car. I wouldn't do that again unless someone shows me several cases of Class II hitches ripping off under the load of 2500 lb trailers.
I have seen pics of hitch failures on the MK4 Jetta/Golf chassis. Some from trailer towing, some from bike rack use. We have owned a few of these cars, and I have installed hitches on them. They are largely mounted to the thin sheet metal that makes up the spare tire well. One bolt goes through the thicker sheet metal near the tow strap, but still does not inspire confidence.

The Euro hitches install into the unibody frame channels behind the bumper and are quite robust. Towing weight is higher, but tongue weight is not. European towing standards usually recommend 4-5% tongue weight. Keep in mind that they also tend to tow at lower speeds and for shorter distances than we (in the US) do.

While we're on the topic, European trailer and coupler design is quite advanced compared to what we have here. I many countries, they don't even require chains, since the coupling system is so secure. Also, their trailers almost all have rod or cable actuated surge brakes, and feature parking brakes as well.
__________________
-Jesse
SOLD! - 1984 Scamp 13 in Maryland.
mcbrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 07:04 AM   #70
Senior Member
 
honda03842's Avatar
 
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,300
John,

I do recognize that VW has won many awards for their tow ability in Europe and is part of the reason that I have been so interested in VWs. However in the end, assuming the vehicle has the ability to tow my trailer, it is the overall reliability and per mile cost that most interests me.

We are one of those rare, these days, single vehcle families and vehicle failure is simply a pain. As well we travel to places where the nearest Honda repair facility or parts source can be a long way off. (This makes a truck a more logical tow vehicle because practically everywhere you can find truck repair facility.)

Being retired, now for 13 years, and really old, cost is important for us. We assume our next tow vehicle will be our last, choosing well is important.

As to the need for premium fuel, there are many places we travel where you run into only a single pump and it is not premium. Of course this is rare, and not vehicle fatal, but it happens in both Canada and the USA.

On our trip to Newfoundland a couple we met from BC were telling us how it was difficult to find diesel on many of the back roads of Newfoundland. Not too surprising, most of the end of the road places do not even have gas stations. Generally we begin our explorations with a full tank.

As to hitch attachment, it is apparent that a hitch can be solidly attached to most vehicles, though some may require more effort than others. As to tongue weight we have a comparitively light tongue, well less than 10%, compared to most on the Trailer Weight list and tow happily and well.

Tow vehicles are usually an explosive subject. This thread has provided a wealth of information for me. Thank you.
__________________

__________________
Norm and Ginny

2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
honda03842 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FWD or AWD? frank_a Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 52 09-26-2013 09:04 AM
VW Jetta honda03842 Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 32 04-24-2012 09:48 PM
Jetta towing issues.... caution Barrie Bochoff Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 60 09-29-2011 05:08 AM
Towing an FWD vehicle Mike Price Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 0 01-03-2010 05:22 PM
Can my '95 VW Jetta tow a 13'?? David Scott General Chat 9 03-25-2007 08:37 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.