Towing with FWD V6 vs a Jetta TDI

[Night Sailor]

There has been many valuable and interesting contributions to this thread. Thanks to all. I found the European info most interesting and would like to know more about their chain less couplers.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens

Absolutely - this is Germany where excommunication and/or burning at the stake is the minimum penalty for doing anything with a vehicle that the manufacturer has not specifically approved.

LOL sorry to hear that Germany has gone the way of being PC as well - rather liked the idea that they would be blindfolded and put in front of a line of fire power

I have also found the discussion regarding the various maintenance issues etc interesting as well, without the promoting of towing over manufacturers specs. My point was that it would be nice if we could keep it to that.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Excellent link, Andrew

As an irrelevant aside of my own, I am amused to note that since I added shocks to my Boler, the only thing that keeps my rig from being "Tempo 100" legal is the age of my tires. Good, since I routinely tow at 100 km/h.

Where did you find in Canada/US the "Yurpeen-only anti-sway system where the coupler includes two friction pucks that clamp onto the tow ball" that Andrew mentioned?

[Andrew Gibbens]

Here is the Al-Ko version of the friction anti-sway system



Features & Benefits » AL-KO

After the coupler has been locked onto the ball, pushing down the big red handle clamps the the friction pucks onto the ball. That black bit at bottom left is the tow hitch - Yurpeens don't use receivers so there is just one ball size and height.

And Germany has not just gone PC - they invented absolute compliance with the law. Even just thinking about towing above the manufacturer's rating is probably a crime there.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens

And Germany has not just gone PC - they invented absolute compliance with the law. Even just thinking about towing above the manufacturer's rating is probably a crime there.

LOL know all to well from my times working in Germany with various levels of authorities.

Thanks for sharing once again Andrew. That is an interesting looking piece of equipment.

[honda03842]

Brian,

Here are the speed limits for Europe.

Speed limits | Planning your holiday | The Caravan Club

The motorway speeds are set by each country, like the individual states, and vary from 80 to 50 mph with the bulk at the lower end of the scale.

We do travel at 55 mph because we generally avoid Interstates and drive non-limited access roads. When on Interstates we drive faster, at least 60 mph.

On the Trans Canada Highway on our NL trip we often drove 62 mph even though they were mostly not limited access, instead of limited access they were limited traffic, a very comfortable way to travel.

Again thanks for the info and that is one heavy duty looking coupler. By the way the coupler cot about $500.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Where did you find in Canada/US the "Yurpeen-only anti-sway system where the coupler includes two friction pucks that clamp onto the tow ball" that Andrew mentioned?

I didn't. Even if I found one, it would be for a 50 mm ball, and those (while available) are not very common here.

I don't use one of those anti-sway couplers, or any other kind of sway-control device. The regulation offers three alternatives:

The values marked with "*" (asterisk) may be used if:

• the trailer is equipped with a suitable coupling with stabilising device or
• the trailer is equipped with a suitable dynamic stability system or
• the towing vehicle is equipped with a suitable dynamic stability system for towing (this is stated in the vehicle registration document).

So, I would be okay with one of the stability control alternatives... but I don't have either of those. The bit about the asterisk refers to the preceding section (which I have reformatted a bit for readability in this forum):

The permissible laden weight of the trailer may not exceed any of the following three values:

• The total towing capacity of the towing vehicle
• The permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle
• The product of X • unladen weight of the towing vehicle

Factor X consists of one the following values, depending on the technical equipment of the vehicle:

technical equipment of the trailer
without hydraulic shock absorbers 0,3
with brakes and hydraulic shock absorbers

Caravan 0,8 or 1,0*
Other trailers 1,1 or 1,2*

Since I don't have any of the stability features, but I do have brakes and shocks, I am limited to only 80% of the tug's two-ton empty weight... which is enough for our loaded 17' Boler.


Question about forum use:
What is the point of members taking the time and trouble to find and provide links to clear and authoritative sources of information, if other members are going to criticize without even reading the linked material?

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I didn't. Even if I found one, it would be for a 50 mm ball, and those (while available) are not very common here.

2" is 50.8mm. A 2" coupler will work just fine on a European 50mm ball.

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Question about forum use:
What is the point of members taking the time and trouble to find and provide links to clear and authoritative sources of information, if other members are going to criticize without even reading the linked material?

Here, here! Or is it hear, hear!?

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P;402570

[I

Question about forum use:[/I]
What is the point of members taking the time and trouble to find and provide links to clear and authoritative sources of information, if other members are going to criticize without even reading the linked material?

If your shaking your finger at me Brian just for the record I have read the link and in fact today was not the first time I have read the regulations

No criticizing of anyone. Simple asking a question of you as to where you acquired a piece of equipment, which I assumed you had. Was not aware of what the tow capacity is of your tug or the loaded weight of your trailer, to be aware they were exempt, not that it matters as your tug and tow combo isnt the main focusing of this thread.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Even if I found one, it would be for a 50 mm ball, and those (while available) are not very common here.

Originally Posted by mcbrew

2" is 50.8mm. A 2" coupler will work just fine on a European 50mm ball.

Thanks for the tip. I do realize that the size is close, and that it might work (without getting into the details of why that 0.8 mm might matter), but I wasn't going to open that particular can of worms. Applying Euro limits in North America is controversial enough; I would rather not debate the wisdom of deliberately using a mismatched ball and coupler combination... it would at least need to be a separate thread in the forum.

In hindsight, I realize that rather than mentioning the size mismatch to explain why it would be difficult to use a European stabilizing coupler, I should have referred to Andrew's point: they don't work with towballs mounted on threaded studs, which is most balls here, and perhaps all balls practical for my tug and trailer combination.

Back to the thread topic: if anyone wants to evaluate the candidate tugs for 100 km/h towing against the German standard, these little details will matter if the plan is to rely on a specific piece of technology.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

If your shaking your finger at me Brian just for the record I have read the link and in fact today was not the first time I have read the regulations

No criticizing of anyone. Simple asking a question of you as to where you acquired a piece of equipment, which I assumed you had. Was not aware of what the tow capacity is of your tug or the loaded weight of your trailer, to be aware they were exempt, not that it matters as your tug and tow combo isnt the main focusing of this thread.

Carol apparently misread the linked material, incorrectly assumed that a stabilizing coupler was always required for "Tempo 100", and thus asked where I found one. If there were any question about whether one of the four ways to qualify without a stabilizing coupler might apply to my rig, that would have been a good question to ask.

I apologize for making an assumption myself. My assumption was that a question that showed a lack of understanding of the linked material (and making no reference to the linked material) indicated that the material had not been read. I have read stuff and still missed the point, too.

I agree that my rig is not very relevant to the thread; it was just an example of how one of our rigs - even a front-wheel drive non-truck towing a 17' trailer - can easily meet this high-speed towing requirement. The candidate vehicles in this thread might, too.

[honda03842]

Earlier in the thread the statement was made that:

"There appear to be a number of people here who do not realize, that on the other side of the big pond they have set tow limits in most counties that apply across the whole country. Not just on certain roads. Doesn't matter if you are towing on a 5 lane freeway vs a 2 lane road - you cant go over x so many Km/h. Its as simple as that."

The reality is that the speed limit in virtually every European country varies depending on the quality of the road.

Speed limits | Planning your holiday | The Caravan Club

[gmw photos]

Well dang, I think y'all scared the original poster off !

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

Well dang, I think y'all scared the original poster off !

Now isn't that a surprise.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Carol apparently misread the linked material, incorrectly assumed that a stabilizing coupler was always required for "Tempo 100".

NO she did not misread the linked material or Andrews post for that matter She simple as stated did not realize the loaded weight of your trailer or type of tug & it specs to know that it would be exempt as she clearly stated in last post. She as also asking as she wondered where one might find such a stabilizing hitch in NA & how could it in fact be used on a NA hitch system if required, as she had read Andrew's post fully unlike some others & as such was aware they were not compatible.

[Glenn Baglo]

If you guys have nothing else to do, you could come over and clean my fridge.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

If you guys have nothing else to do, you could come over and clean my fridge.

Too dangerous. Have you seen the propane leak threads?

[Glenn Baglo]

Yup. I'm thinking of removing all the appliances and the WC.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Yup. I'm thinking of removing all the appliances and the WC.

Yup. You could drown in a WC.