Towing with FWD V6 vs a Jetta TDI

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by Bill in Pittsburgh

I personally do not like front wheel drive for towing. Traction can be an issue when pulling out on an uphill gravel or grass slope. This is a situation I often find myself in when trying to get away from the crowds and seeking the primitive areas of a campground.

If you can do it, 4wd drive is best in a vehicle that has primary drive rear wheels and goes to 4wd by engaging the front wheels.

Frank

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

The (2013) Hyundai Santa Fe will tow up to 5,000 pounds depending on model...if we're talkin' used/other models it's a different ball game.

Here's a link to specs for one 2013 6cyl.: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe GLS 4dr SUV 3.3L V6 6-speed Automatic Features and Specs

Seems like plenty of vehicle for a 1300 pound trailer. Probably more room in the tug than the tow, which could turn out to be important for a fulltimer...

Francesca

I think that the o.p. mentioned that she has a budget of $5000, which could be very limiting for a safe and reliable vehicle that can still pull an egg.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

I think that the o.p. mentioned that she has a budget of $5000, which could be very limiting for a safe and reliable vehicle that can still pull an egg.

O-o-o-o-h. Missed that. Thanks, Bob.

That's a tall order, especially for someone looking to go fulltime with lots of mountain travel.

Never mind the new vehicle specs!

Francesca

[SilverGhost]

I think a small AWD or FWD w/selectable AWD (do they make those any more?) would be better for the stated intent to use BLM lands out west. The Santa Fe sounds like it will have the power but the brakes may be over taxed when towing.

The Jetta TDI I would stay away for a couple reasons. They are notorious for sitting low and banging the engine, even in parking lots. You don't want to have a busted oil pan way out on BLM lands. The tow bill is huge! And the TDI, along with rest of the car, is an expensive animal to feed if you aren't doing a big portion of the repairs yourself. It also helps to know some TDI and VW guru mechanics. Now don't get me wrong, I love mine but also I work for VW. As such I get the "hook up" on parts and have all the special tools.

If it was me I would find an older CRV or Sportage, have a mechanic (like myself) inspect it Then over maintain it a little. Both are tried and true designs and can be had in AWD/4WD versions if you want it. One member full times the CRV and I know another uses the KIA with success.

Jason

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

FWD w/selectable AWD (do they make those any more?)

Sort of. Nothing current or recent that I know of is pure 2WD until manually selected, but some systems allow degrees of control, such as locking the rear diff or the rear drive clutch.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

The Santa Fe sounds like it will have the power but the brakes may be over taxed when towing

I don't know why the brakes on this particular tug would be an issue, but then I would have trailer brakes...

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by frank_a

With a trailer weight like that Angela, I would bet your tongue weight is somewhere between 100lbs and 160lbs.

You will be hard pressed to keep any small trailer with a propane tank and a battery on the tongue under 160lbs. As the real weights list shows even with the 13' Bolers most are over 200lbs on the tongue. Only one under on the list and anyones guess as to why - empty propane tank or a little tank perhaps?

As far as breaks go most manufacturers require them on trailers of more than a 1000lbs assuming the vehicle is rated to tow more than that and at least one of the vehicles you are considering isn't. Usually a good reason for that ;-) Yet its a good bet the total weight of your Boler loaded for camping will weigh in at much more than a 1000lbs - actually close to double that as the Real World Weights List shows.

[Carol H]

A Subaru would be another vehicle to consider but it also requires brakes on a trailer over 1000lbs.

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by Carol H

A Subaru would be another vehicle to consider but it also requires brakes on a trailer over 1000lbs.

Subarus are tough to wire 7 pin connectors for. Not impossible, but they do not make it easy!

Frank

[Carol H]

Not if you take it to a place where they know what they are doing. Had no problem getting one installed in short order complete with brakes. Lots of people here towing with Subarus complete with brakes. The car comes with everything but the brake wire pre wired into it.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

I think a small AWD or FWD w/selectable AWD (do they make those any more?) would be better for the stated intent to use BLM lands out west. The Santa Fe sounds like it will have the power but the brakes may be over taxed when towing.

The Jetta TDI I would stay away for a couple reasons. They are notorious for sitting low and banging the engine, even in parking lots. You don't want to have a busted oil pan way out on BLM lands. The tow bill is huge! And the TDI, along with rest of the car, is an expensive animal to feed if you aren't doing a big portion of the repairs yourself. It also helps to know some TDI and VW guru mechanics. Now don't get me wrong, I love mine but also I work for VW. As such I get the "hook up" on parts and have all the special tools.

If it was me I would find an older CRV or Sportage, have a mechanic (like myself) inspect it Then over maintain it a little. Both are tried and true designs and can be had in AWD/4WD versions if you want it. One member full times the CRV and I know another uses the KIA with success.

Jason

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Sort of. Nothing current or recent that I know of is pure 2WD until manually selected, but some systems allow degrees of control, such as locking the rear diff or the rear drive clutch.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I don't know why the brakes on this particular tug would be an issue, but then I would have trailer brakes...

Hey Brian B-P!

Is this all you have to say about Jason's suggestions, or would you care to weigh in on his suggested alternatives before those of us who own them do? ( See red highlights above.)

Francesca

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I don't know why the brakes on this particular tug would be an issue, but then I would have trailer brakes...

I don't have personal experience on the Santa Fe, but the other, older Japanese cars I have experience on had just adequate front brakes and tiny little rear drums. A couple hard stops would overheat and warp the front rotors. And the rear would rarely lock up (did not have ABS).

And reading the towing guide lines of 2700lbs w/brakes and 1000lbs w/o brakes leads me to think brakes are a big part of the equation.

Just my guess based on what I read

Jason

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

I don't have personal experience on the Santa Fe, but the other, older Japanese cars I have experience on had just adequate front brakes and tiny little rear drums. A couple hard stops would overheat and warp the front rotors. And the rear would rarely lock up (did not have ABS).

Okay, but this isn't a Japanese car.

I've never had such brake issues with any of the several Japanese cars I've had, or heard of then with anybody else's cars. Descending Rocky Mountain highway grades is no problem. Friends of mine used to race stock Honda Civics, where hard braking occurred a few times in each two-minute lap, and I don't recall brake issues... although the Camaros in a series running at the same time had to use upgraded brakes and still had brake hose failures because the calipers were running so hot. My own CRX wore out pads pretty fast on the track, but had no rotor issues.

In my own informal observations, rear brake lockup is about as frequent as front brake lockup, although of course it depends on surface traction, vehicle loading, and proportioning valve behaviour. The rears seem to do their share. This doesn't seem different to me from my current and first non-Japanese car, my Ford Focus.

I wouldn't be concerned about a vehicle's brakes just because it comes from the other side of the Pacific.

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

... reading the towing guide lines of 2700lbs w/brakes and 1000lbs w/o brakes leads me to think brakes are a big part of the equation.

Just my guess based on what I read

I understand the reasoning, but the same kind of limits, including the specific 1000 lb unbraked trailer limit, is very common among just about everything other than pickup trucks, including the GM cars that I have checked. Brakes are important, but I don't see any weakness indicated here.

[frank_a]

Most warped rotors result from overtightened wheel bolts!

Frank

[SilverGhost]

My buddy didn't have any problem with his '85 CRX. But I had problems with warped rotors on my '97 Civic. When I asked around I found other owners with similar complaints. That was the only car that I had to turn the rotors a couple times before replacing the brake pads. There were other issues with that car so maybe I just got "Monday" car.....

Working at dealership we get to drive a variety of used cars that get traded in. A lot of brands, but Koreans by a larger margin, have improved a lot in the last few years. But even still I have seen some Asian SUVs with smaller brakes than my German hatchback.

Sorry if I bench race and look at spec too much. I'm a car guy first and just got into FGRVS.

Jason

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

Sorry if I bench race and look at spec too much. I'm a car guy first and just got into FGRVS.

That makes two of us.
More information is always good; I get concerned by stuff that is likely to lead people astray if they accept it without question. Some of us, of course, always question...

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I understand the reasoning, but the same kind of limits, including the specific 1000 lb unbraked trailer limit, is very common among just about everything other than pickup trucks, including the GM cars that I have checked. Brakes are important, but I don't see any weakness indicated here.

That the towing limit without brakes is so similar across brands and types of vehicles make me doubt the methodology in determining tow ratings. If a lawyer or accountant is determining tow rating instead of an engineer, then what are they using to make this decision? Or better yet a marketing consultant that wants to one up the competition?

BTW I heard from a former ford employee about how the F100 got killed because the F series had to have the biggest tow rating. Egos had more to do with the tow rating than actual capability.

We both had different experiences with different cars from Asian manufactures. We are all on here to pool info to help each other make informed decisions. Hopefully when we have these discussions we discover the answer to help the OP chose the correct answer for their personal situation.

Sorry, I wandered off topic and got lost. What were we talking about? . You are probably right that the brakes are just fine for what the OP wants to do. And newer models are getting even better (and more worried about liability) so probably even more likely to be just fine.

Jason

[John McMillin]

I have a good friend who's very happy towing his 1000-lbs + rafting trailer with a TDI sportswagen. He reports mid-20s fuel mileage. The latest VWs aren't as low-slung as the factory-slammed models from the early 2000s, but they're no SUVs, either. You must select a manual transmission-- the DSG automatic has a 1000 lbs listed towing capacity.

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by John McMillin

I have a good friend who's very happy towing his 1000-lbs + rafting trailer with a TDI sportswagen. He reports mid-20s fuel mileage. The latest VWs aren't as low-slung as the factory-slammed models from the early 2000s, but they're no SUVs, either. You must select a manual transmission-- the DSG automatic has a 1000 lbs listed towing capacity.

And most of the GTI owners complained they weren't low enough (compared to the Euro version)

The 1000lb limit is not just DSG - VW does not recommend towing with its cars, only it's SUVs.

I can say though, with the proper hitch, that they tow far more than 1000lb easily.

Jason

[honda03842]

Angela,

Since you're from NS I suggest you go the Baddeck Vintage Fiberglass Rally, July 19-21. The last one I attended had about 20 Bolers among other small trailers. On Saturday they have an open house and you can talk to actual owners.

To me a Boler can be towed by just about anything if you are conscious of how to load your Boler.

The people at the rally were, like most of these events, very friendly.