Towing with Sienna/Rav4/Highlander? - Page 6 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-17-2013, 02:19 PM   #71
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Name: Joseph
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IMHO, the 3rd row springs are the medicine for rear squat on the Rav4, assuming you dont have the 3rd row model already! Airbags added to the stiffer springs will help further... And then a WD hitch to do the rest of the leveling maybe.

Bonus when you start with the Sport: Stiffer shock absorbers, a good combo with the stiffer springs. Rear end is planted and secure!
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:21 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye View Post
I asked my local dealer to replace the springs & they said NO!
Well, better off buying the springs online, and installing them yourself, or someone you trust. The dealerships NEVER have given me any sense of confidence...
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:26 PM   #73
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Jon,

In your case I'd hunt up an independent Toyota repair shop. I'm sure it will cost less than a dealership.
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:57 PM   #74
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One interesting piece of towing info:

Australia Spec V6 Toyota Rav4's (which appear to be IDENTICAL mechanically to North American Tow Prep V6's) are rated to to tow 1900 kgs (~4200 lbs!) vs our 3500 lb cap...

Could it be our litigation happy environment??

Towing Capacity - Toyota RAV4
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:20 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph A. View Post
One interesting piece of towing info:

Australia Spec V6 Toyota Rav4's (which appear to be IDENTICAL mechanically to North American Tow Prep V6's) are rated to to tow 1900 kgs (~4200 lbs!) vs our 3500 lb cap...

Could it be our litigation happy environment??

Towing Capacity - Toyota RAV4
It may be, but towing a 3010 lb (actual weight loaded) 17B with a RAV4 sport, I wouldn't even think of adding another 1200 lbs. The RAV4 does OK, but you can tell that on hills it is often working hard.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:39 PM   #76
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Joseph,

Welcome to the group. Thank you for bringing to our attention the stiffer springs for the RAV4.

We will have our hitch, wiring, and brake controller installed tomorrow. Since we have one of the lightest Scamps (our tongue weight is less than 200) I am hoping we will not need any additional equipment, but your suggestion is one we will remember.

If you haven't yet checked out the rally thread please note the gathering in St. Malo in August. I think your parks start the registration In April. All the super sites are gone beforeI wake up. We go for non electric site so have our pick.

Hope to see you at St Malo.

Nancy
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:23 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye View Post
I asked my local dealer to replace the springs & they said NO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
They sound mighty stuck-up. I'm sure there are plenty of independent shops nearby that would love to have the business. Sounds like an install even my tire store up the street could handle.
I doubt there is any technical difficulty with performing the installation. It seems more likely that the dealer is unwilling to use non-standard parts for critical components of the vehicle.

In this case the change seems reasonable, but when unloaded, and not carrying around the extra weight of the 3rd row seat, the front to rear spring stiffness and roll rate balance may not be appropriate. Watch the empty handling carefully for oversteer, especially over bumps or during deceleration.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph A. View Post
One interesting piece of towing info:

Australia Spec V6 Toyota Rav4's (which appear to be IDENTICAL mechanically to North American Tow Prep V6's) are rated to to tow 1900 kgs (~4200 lbs!) vs our 3500 lb cap...

Could it be our litigation happy environment??
or it could simple be as has been mentioned many times when this topic of tow ratings outside of North America that the cars are simple not the same cars as they probable have a number of different components Many times the differences between the cars is pretty clear - different engines and different rear suspension components both of which will and can impact tow ratings. We in NA want a smooth ride and the majority don't want a diesel engine or so the vehicle manufactures seem to think. :-)
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:13 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Joseph A. View Post
IMHO, the 3rd row springs are the medicine for rear squat on the Rav4, assuming you dont have the 3rd row model already! Airbags added to the stiffer springs will help further... And then a WD hitch to do the rest of the leveling maybe.

Bonus when you start with the Sport: Stiffer shock absorbers, a good combo with the stiffer springs. Rear end is planted and secure!
Has anyone heard if Joseph A. was happy with how the new springs worked out? I have the exact same vehicle. I'm seeking feedback from someone about how effective the springs switch is.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:41 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by JungleJim View Post
Joseph,

I saw your post about replacing the RAV4 Sport springs with the 3rd row springs.
We have a 2009 RAV4 Sport and have terrible rear end sag while towing our light weight 1000 lbs camper. It has about 179 lbs tongue weight.

1. Did you have positive results? Do you feel that there was any improvement?

2. Do you think you still need to add helper air bags?
I read on the RAV4 forum that someone with the 3rd row couldn't fit the air bags because the springs had a smaller interior diameter.

I would greatly appreciate any experience you can share with us!

Thank you,
Jim
Hey Jim,

I posted your PM so that others looking for this info will be aable to find it too.

1. I have had very positive results. I never tried towing without the 3rd row springs, but with them we've had no issues. There is slight rear sag without the WD bars loaded, but once I tighten those chains, all the sag is gone. That is pulling a Coachmen Clipper 16B, probably about 350-400 lbs tongue. The trucklet sits level fully loaded, and handles just fine. The WD hitch is very important on this setup. The WD trunnion bars I have are pretty light, compared to the standard uniits out there.

2. I would not even think of using airbags at this point. The current setup is that good.

3. I have towed now approx 5000 km since May with this setup, through the Rocky Mountains, through the prairies, etc. From Manitoba to BC and back, with a few shorter trips in between...

Hope that helps!

-Joseph
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:55 PM   #81
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Joseph,

Are you aware that the tongue weight limit for the RAV4 V6 is 350 lbs.??
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:54 AM   #82
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Joseph A.,

I don't know what hitch you have, but the robust OEM hitch is only class II, which cannot be used with a WD set-up.
The after market hitches only bolt to 4 places, while the OEM hitch has 20 or more bolts securing it to the vehicle. But even with those extra bolts, it is only a class II weight carrying hitch.

So it does sag without the WDH. Would you ever drive anywhere without the WDH hooked up, or does it sag too much?

I wish you had experience with your trailer mounted before and after the new rear springs. Without that comparison, we don't really know if the rear springs actually make any difference.

I was excited at first when you talked about the rear springs. But now that you've said that you did not do a before/after comparison, I'm not convinced that they would be of any positive help.

Thanks for sharing.
-Jim
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:12 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by JungleJim View Post
Joseph A.,

I don't know what hitch you have, but the robust OEM hitch is only class II, which cannot be used with a WD set-up.
The after market hitches only bolt to 4 places, while the OEM hitch has 20 or more bolts securing it to the vehicle. But even with those extra bolts, it is only a class II weight carrying hitch.

So it does sag without the WDH. Would you ever drive anywhere without the WDH hooked up, or does it sag too much?

I wish you had experience with your trailer mounted before and after the new rear springs. Without that comparison, we don't really know if the rear springs actually make any difference.

I was excited at first when you talked about the rear springs. But now that you've said that you did not do a before/after comparison, I'm not convinced that they would be of any positive help.

Thanks for sharing.
-Jim
Jim,

The OEM receiver I have is a 2" class III. Class I/II are 1.25" usually.

Their is some minor rear squat with 350-400 lbs of tongue weight, which the WD hitch sorts out. I could drive without the weight bars, but there would be no point.

The fact is that the 3rd row springs have a firmer spring rate than the stock limited/sport/base 2 row springs. It is enough of a difference that Toyota rates them for ~330 lbs more payload, which is something like 30% more payload than 2 row models.

They do work, plain and simple. I am not the first to do this either, they have been documented by a few Rav4 forum frequenters.. They are an OEM option for those with 2 row Rav4 models, that wish to comfortably tow at/near the max tongue weight limit set by Toyota.

Happy to help!
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:11 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Joseph A. View Post
Jim,

The OEM receiver I have is a 2" class III. Class I/II are 1.25" usually.
I do not want to come across as argumentative, but I want everyone to know what the hitch is and what it is not. The Toyota OEM reciever is not class III. (I agree that "most" class II receivers are 1.25", but not all.)

Here is a quote about your hitch directly from Toyota...
Quote:
Notes:
  • Engineer: FOR RAV4 WITH TOW PACKAGE PT228-42060
    • Fits V6 with factory tow package (option code TO)
    • Tow Rating 3500 lbs (Class II)
    • Kit does not fit 4 cylinder models
    • This has a 2" hitch receiver opening
  • 4 pin wire harness, 08921-42900 needs to be ordered separately
With all of the bolts used to secure the hitch, you might end up not doing any damage. But please be aware that it is indeed a Class II hitch not designed to be used as a WDH.


Quote:
The fact is that the 3rd row springs have a firmer spring rate than the stock limited/sport/base 2 row springs.!
These have been researched by people over on the RAV4 forum. The 3rd row springs have an identification number that is also shared with some Limited non-3rd row RAV4's. These springs are not exclusive to 3rd row RAV's.
A lot of 3rd row version owners have complained about rear end sag and end up getting helper air bags like every else. No owners have used weight distribution systems with the OEM hitch because it's not a Class III.

Glad that they seem to work for you. (But you never compared them with your original springs.)

Good luck with your setup. Please keep an eye on things with your weight distribution setup. Watch how high you set the tension.

Thank you again for sharing your experience.
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