Towing with VW Golf GTI - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-23-2015, 12:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
Like any car or TV the key is in the set up. On our car we use a custom 2" receiver and a WDH that spreads out the tongue weight on the car for an optimal balance. Good luck with your Golf towing research. If you set it up right, in the end you should have a great towing rig. Note..... recommend the use of a highly rated towing professional to advise on your rig and set up.


Perhaps at this point MC1 you could add some information of value to this discussion by outlining why or why not the set it up he already had installed on the car (A class I hitch ) may not be "set up right" by your standards.

What does he need to change and add equipment wise to the vehicle and how much will it cost to have it "set up right" to meet your "Pro" standards.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:09 PM   #30
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Go with the Euro hitch and pay the extra and it will do everything the manufacturer says it will and also meet the 1 million load cycle test as required by law.
Hitches me in the US do not mount in the proper manner nor in the required places.
I don't know how Can - am. Can operate VW all over Canada towing Airstream without being arrested, but they seem to be able to mount hitches and tow quite well.
However it is not worth more effort to go into towing with VWs.
The OP asked what the car would tow and the answer is on the VW UK site for GB.
For whatever reason VW chooses to not recommend towing with the same cars in the US.

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Old 09-23-2015, 01:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post


Perhaps at this point MC1 you could add some information.....
Carol, I am just a student in the fine art of towing fundamentals. Jim already has the key links to get him headed in the right direction.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:56 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
First off lets look at some facts:

A 13' Scamp loaded for camping is going to weigh more than 1500lbs.
See the thread Trailer Weights in the Real World - 13' Scamps weighed in at between 1620lbs to 1950lbs. I know of another that weighed in at over 2000lbs loaded with no water in the tanks.
I'm planning on getting mine without a bathroom, and without a hot water heater. My understanding is those are the two items many folks have that push higher weight numbers. I'd also get the standard rather than the deluxe. My assumption keeping all that in mind was in the 1500 range, I could of course be wrong. Will investigate further.

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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
The Golf GTI is built in Mexico not Europe. There are differences between the European built Golf vs the one built for the NA market and the engine is not the only thing different. Suspension is also different amongst other things. North American's like a softer ride.
I'm not certain you are correct about the suspension -- the GTI is targeted as a performance hatch, so I'd be surprised if they made it a highway cruiser. Regardless, in my case, it doesn't matter -- the new GTI is built in Mexico, but my 2011 was built in Wolfsburg, Germany -- the last model year to be built there I believe. W VIN code and all.

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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Your Golf may well have the same engine as the Tiguan but thats about it when it comes to similarities. Engine power is not the only factor that goes into determining a vehicles suitability for towing. The body design of the two vehicles is totally different. For example there are many differences between the Tiguan and the Golf specs: ground clearance, Curb weight, wheel base, length, payload, to name just a few - all of which can and will impact how well a vehicle tows are does not tow.
Agreed the body style of Tiguan and Golf are quite different, though they are built on an identical platform. But, not to bring up Europe again -- I agree the comparison can't be made always -- but here it certainly can. I agree that all things aren't equal between the US and Europe -- but one thing that is is body style of the Golf, regardless of model. And it repeatedly wins best tow car awards. So I don't think you can argue the body style is bad for towing.

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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
In Europe they have across the country towing speed limits. In a greater part of Europe towing speed is 80 kph (50 mph). Even the famous Autobahn which is well known for high speed driving is only 50mph when towing. Anyone who has towed a trailer for more than a week or two knows that speed impacts towing in a big way and not just gas milage. If towing at speeds at 50mph or less you could tow just about anything with LOTS of vehicles rated to tow nothing here in NA .... BUT when towing at highways speeds of 65 mph and some places greater that all changes fast and not in a good way.
Agree speed is a factor. One must be reasonable in setting their speed based on conditions, towing, etc. I see plenty of people towing at negligent speeds with F350 Diesels. The speed thing is something to keep in mind when towing, and adjust, not necessarily a reason not to tow at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
In Europe they use a very different hitch system - both in design and how they attach them to the vehicle than we do in NA. You will not see anything in Europe that looks anything like the NA Class I hitch you have attached to your Golf.

Hitch attachment points on the car are often very different than those used in NA and each hitch installed in Europe has stamped right on it what its max tow rating is and that rating will match exactly what the auto manufacture has stated the car can tow - No more. You get caught with a hitch on a car in Europe that was not designed specifically for that car and stamped as such, you have yourself a REAL big problem. We have a member here who like the OP thought they would test the waters in regards to towing with another popular VW that is used for towing in Europe often. Results in regards to keeping the trailer attached where not so good. The nice part of the story is they where good enough to come back to the list and share the real life story of what happened. See the thread Jetta Towing Issues ......caution.
Very interesting -- I Wasn't aware of the hitch differences. Will research. This likely does indeed weigh in favor of not moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Although we have a lot of nice well meaning folks here, you can be sure that none of them will help pay for any legal fees to defend your decision in a Civil personal injury legal case should you seriously injured or killed someone.

Before this thread dies out someone here will ask they be shown proof that there has every been anyone sued for having caused an injury or death to someone as a result of towing with a vehicle that was not rated to tow anything or an over weight trailer. No one here will be able to respond with direct evidence for two reasons. One is that in order to do a complete search of all civil personal injury case details, one would need to pay for access to the data base which the information is obtainable - does not appear in my time here that we have many if any practising personal injury lawyers hanging out here that would have that access. Secondly, there are so many personal injury civil cases launched everyday in NA that few make the papers and they are more often than not settled before they even go to court and the settlements are often done with a non disclosure clause. So not much out there on the public internet for Google to find for you
I used to practice personal injury law myself, so I am quite aware of possible risks. I believe most incidents involving trailers likely boil down to some combination of speed and improper towing setup (no brakes, etc) rather than SUV vs not. There are some times it may be negligent to tow period as well -- for example, if you see on the news that winds are blowing tractor trailers over, you probably shouldn't get on the road with a box trailer of any kind. Regardless, all of the points are well taken and I'm leaning strongly towards sticking with the tent . I'll keep researching though!
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:09 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
I don't know how Can - am. Can operate VW all over Canada towing Airstream without being arrested, but they seem to be able to mount hitches and tow quite well.
Why would Can-Am face arrest? An owner of the vehicle can add to it what ever they want and do with it what ever they want and at the end of the day it is the owner of the vehicle who will face what ever ramifications there may be as a result of the changes/modifications/usage of the vehicle.

Having said that, there are some other well respected hitch "PRO's" in this country who will not install a hitch on a vehicle that is not rated by the manufactures to tow anything. Reason for that? My guess is either either insurance company has advised them they will not cover them in regards to 3rd party liability issues or they have learned through the school of hard knocks its a bad idea.

There is a rumour that even Can-Am has been known to decline a job or two due to thinking it to be a real bad idea as well
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Azmordean View Post
I'm planning on getting mine without a bathroom, and without a hot water heater. My understanding is those are the two items many folks have that push higher weight numbers. I'd also get the standard rather than the deluxe. My assumption keeping all that in mind was in the 1500 range, I could of course be wrong. Will investigate further.


Having been present at a number of those weigh ins I would suggest that most of the Scamp 13's listed on the Real World Weight thread where basic Scamps with no bathrooms. 13's with Bathrooms are not overly popular/common.

Up here we have more 13 Boler's than Scamps and none of them ever came with Bathrooms and the Scamp 13 was built originally from the same mold originally.

So far I have not meet a single party who has actually weighed their boler who will suggest it weighs less than 1500lbs. ;-)
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Azmordean View Post


I'm not certain you are correct about the suspension -- the GTI is targeted as a performance hatch, so I'd be surprised if they made it a highway cruiser. Regardless, in my case, it doesn't matter -- the new GTI is built in Mexico, but my 2011 was built in Wolfsburg, Germany -- the last model year to be built there I believe. W VIN code and all.



Agreed the body style of Tiguan and Golf are quite different, though they are built on an identical platform. But, not to bring up Europe again -- I agree the comparison can't be made always -- but here it certainly can. I agree that all things aren't equal between the US and Europe -- but one thing that is is body style of the Golf, regardless of model. And it repeatedly wins best tow car awards. So I don't think you can argue the body style is bad for towing.
As you probably appreciate this is not the first rodeo here in regards to a thread on the topic of these vehicles.

If you do a search you on the past threads you will find a a link to a video of an interview with a top dog at VW Germany where they clearly acknowledge the suspension to be one of the differences between autos of the same model name built in Germany Vs Mexico. The thread is probable a couple of years old now. The fact yours was built in Germany as you say negates that factor regardless.

While you may believe the Tiguan and Golf to be the same platform the difference in their heights, weights, length etc suggest differently.

Anyone here who has towed with a number of different sized vehicles (big trucks, little trucks and small passenger vehicles) knows that some of those numbers will play a big part in how well the vehicle tows and how well it does not under various conditions. Distance from hitch to axle, length of wheel base are just a couple of factors that will play into how well a vehicle will tow. I BTW I would be the first to suggest that my much smaller previous tow vehicle provided a far more solid tow with a basic standard hitch equipped on it when pulling the same trailer that my current tow vehicle tows. The later large vehicle has had to have a few extra bits of equipment added & lots of adjustments made to the set up to achieve a solid tow. So I am not a party that would suggest for a minute that a truck is the only vehicle to use to tow safely... actually far from it!

At the end of the day you are the only party who can decide what level of liability you are comfortable living with.

For many it often comes down to the simple question as to What do you own that your not willing to risk losing?
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:24 PM   #36
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The golf, Jetta, and Tiguan are all built on the same MLB platform along with the Audi A 4.
There are of course some detail changes, but many of the parts will interchange. For example the more upscale Audi has the suspension tuned for a sportier ride.
The other manufacturers envied VW their modular designs and cost savings, but when there is a problem it covers a multitude of their product lines. Current 2 liter Diesel woes for example.
As a case on point I used Audi front suspension parts when I rebuilt the front end of my 2009 Jetta wagon.
I could have installed Tiguan springs to make it ride higher if I had wanted to.
There is a great commonality of parts and systems across the VW lines. While there are detail differences from product zones there is very much more commonality. One can check ETKA and see exactly what parts are installed where.
Since no minds will be changed and I have had my say I am finished on this thread. It is a discussion that goes nowhere. I tow with my TDI Sportwagen and I am happy with it.


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Old 09-23-2015, 04:29 PM   #37
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JD, what you posted in the previous post is so true. Many of us get it while others do not. Thnxs for posting.

PS: I used rear springs from the G35 sport model which gave me a little more firmness on the rear of the car. I also had the option of using springs from the G35X which would have gave me a slight lift. I like options.
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:44 PM   #38
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Hmmmmm,,, Considering todays news, maybe suggesting that there wasn't a viable towing capacity was one of the honest things that VW has done in recent times....LOL


And thank you Carol, please save that clip for future use for those that consider themselves smarter than VW's engineers who, after all, were smart enough to fool every one for 11 million vehicles. That's pretty darn smart in my book.


TV's are often like a spouse. Don't be in the business of changing them, change yourself first.....
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:52 PM   #39
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And, as always, it's the tow capacity in the vehicle manual that matters.
This sticker is on my Pro Series weight distribution hitch.
My RAV4 V6 Sport is rated 3,500 lbs with 350 lbs tongue weight, and that's the number, not what's on the hitch.
Attached Thumbnails
WDHitch capacity.jpg  
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:57 AM   #40
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The post on the failure of the Jetta hitch mounts is typical of the US made mounts for VWs. The engineers actually designed in the hitch mounting as required by Euro law and the euro hitches must mount there in the side rails and not the the trunk sheetmetal for obvious reasons.
The euro system also mandated the height of the ball for the TV and the trailer so adjustable hitches are not required or desirable.
The balls are not fastened on individually, but rather a part of a forged piece since many of the anti sway devices work by clamping friction material tightly against the ball and one that would unscrew would not work well.
The Euro zone has coordinated regulations unlike the US where pretty much anything goes on a state by state basis.
I don't expect anyone to agree, but the Euro system is well thought out and is safe.
In the case of the GTI the OP asked what would be reasonable in the absence of information from VW US. The UK has numbers whether you agree with them or not.
The no towing form VW is is more of a marketing decision than an engineering one.
Also most of these SUVs are nothing more than taller passenger cars and are built on the same platforms with taller springs and taller bodies which raise the center of gravity and degrade stability. They have tow ratings from the manufacturer because marketing demands it.
In the case of VW (not an example of extreme integrity probably like most of the other manufacturers) if they had tow ratings on the passenger cars in this country they would have a harder time selling the Tiguan and Touareg at all.
The same applies to some extent to the other CUV/SUV - passenger car platform pairs.
The money is in the more popular taller cars now.
But briefly back to the VW if you want to install a trailer hitch make sure you install a hitch that meets the Euro standard and mounts in the frame pockets provided for then by the design engineers. Other wise you risk having the sheetmetal at the attach points fail as outlined above.
Don't condemn a trailer hitch/car because the owner failed to follow the manufacturer's procedure.

Those long arms on the ends of the crossbar fit way up into the frame rails into the strongest part of the rear end and this setup is designed to meet or exceed the Euro specifications for towing with this car in the Euro zone. Wether you agree or not it is not wise to used the ratings without the complete setup designed for its use. This includes the trailer stabilization electronics etc.
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:10 AM   #41
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Here are some maximum speeds per country, 1st column is high/freeway, 2nd byways/country roads.
The link to DEKRA explains the 100km max sticker for Germany (and Austria) Bing's your buddy to translate ;-)
I like how this thread uncovers the very different travel cultures on different sides of the same pond.
Maybe at VW everyone feels bad enough right now to put the euro tow rating on their cars, if we ask them ;-)

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Maximumsnelheden

Maximumsnelheden in Europa buiten de bebouwde kom met een (geremde) caravan in kilometers per uur.

Land
Snelwegen
Overige wegen
BelgiŽ
(auto + caravan boven 3500 kg) 120
(90) 90 BosniŽ en Herzegovina 80 80 Bulgarije 100 70 Denemarken 80 70 Duitsland (klik voor de voorwaarden voor 100 km/u) 80 80 Estland 90 70 Finland 80 80 Frankrijk /bij regen
(auto + caravan boven 3500 kg)* 130 /110
(90) 90
(80) Griekenland 80 80 Groot-BrittanniŽ 96 80 Hongarije 80 70 Ierland 80 80 ItaliŽ 80 70 KroatiŽ 90 80 Letland 90 80 Litouwen 90 90 Luxemburg 90 75 Nederland 90 80 Noorwegen 80 80 Oostenrijk
(auto + caravan boven 3500 kg ) 100
(80)
80
(70)
Polen 80 70 Portugal 100 70 RoemeniŽ 90 70 Rusland 90 70 ServiŽ 80 80 SloveniŽ 100 90 Slowakije 90 90 Spanje ** 90 70 TsjechiŽ 80 80 Zweden 80 80 Zwitserland 80 80 * In Frankrijk betreft het de toegestane treinmassa zoals dat op het kentekenbewijs of op het typeplaatje van het trekkend voertuig vermeld staat! Dus onafhankelijk van de mogelijk lager (toegestaan) gewicht van de caravan.
** Combinaties > 12 m dienen achter voorzien te zijn van 1 grote (1300x250 mm) of 2 kleine (500x250 mm of type ECE70 van 565x250 mm) gele reflectoren met rode rand. Horizontaal of verticaal - de kleine - vanaf 50 cm tot 150 cm vanaf de grond. Deze borden zijn tevens legaal in Portugal en in Frankrijk indien toegestaan treingewicht > 3500 kg.
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:17 AM   #42
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Here are some maximum speeds per country, 1st column is high/freeway, 2nd byways/country roads.
The link to DEKRA explains the 100km max sticker for Germany (and Austria) Bing's your buddy to translate ;-)
100klm's per hour is 62 MPH here. That is what we cruise at when towing. Not much difference between Germany and here.
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