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Old 09-26-2015, 08:42 AM   #81
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The above post further points to how carefully the European marketplace controls exactly how trailers and hitches are built and used. If those in the US wanted to succumb to those same kinds of limitations, I am sure that higher towing limits could be the result.


Any volunteers with American TV's interested in that level of control ???
I didn't think so....



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Old 09-26-2015, 04:32 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
Unfortunately since the Torklift merely bolts into the four bolts that hole the bumper bar on and not into the factory designed mounting points it also is much weaker then the properly designed Euro hitch of any manufacturer.
Um, have you installed one? I'm guessing no, or you wouldn't say this. It is absolutely not held in place by "just" the bumper bolts.. it definitely goes into the sides of the frame and bolts do go in from factory mounting points the sides.

I"m glad you're such an expert on a product you neither own nor have any practical experience with

I am quite comfortable towing with my torklift hitch, and I believe it to be a MUCH better option than the curt hitch - but I don't ever plan on towing over 2000lbs. Even with the westfalia hitch I just wouldn't be comfortable doing that.

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Hopefully the information in the Owners Manual supplied with the vehicle, applies to the to the vehicle with which it was shipped. Do you know of any specific exceptions as it pertains to towing? That would be very useful information.
There isn't a separate manual for my model car for those with a standard transmission vs the DSG (auto)... it is the same manual handed out for each.
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Old 09-26-2015, 04:51 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by sarahspins View Post
There isn't a separate manual for my model car for those with a standard transmission vs the DSG (auto)... it is the same manual handed out for each.
I've seen the same thing. Towing info in manuals in many cases is just a "rubber stamp affair" of general information. Towing today has developed into a fine art and no way do the manuals come close to touching on all of the technical variables that come into play when trying to evaluate or set up a said tv/trailer.

Ideally one should use all available qualified resources to get the best advice when contemplating a TV/trailer combo.
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:14 PM   #84
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It's easy to see how a smallish, 4cyl vehicle can tow a lightweight trailer. Thnxs for posting.
(re: video of couple towing Airstream with tandem bicycle)

That just be one HELLUVA WDH.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:03 PM   #85
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My local RV dealer tows trailers around with a 2 cylinder John Deere garden tractor with a large counter
weight on the front . Tows well . Maybe it's a European. designed garden tractor ?
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:12 PM   #86
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Sorry, but I have to ask. Is that towing with a VW or is it polluting with a VW?


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Old 09-26-2015, 06:38 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by sarahspins View Post
Um, have you installed one? I'm guessing no, or you wouldn't say this. It is absolutely not held in place by "just" the bumper bolts.. it definitely goes into the sides of the frame and bolts do go in from factory mounting points the sides.

I"m glad you're such an expert on a product you neither own nor have any practical experience with

I am quite comfortable towing with my torklift hitch, and I believe it to be a MUCH better option than the curt hitch - but I don't ever plan on towing over 2000lbs. Even with the westfalia hitch I just wouldn't be comfortable doing that.



There isn't a separate manual for my model car for those with a standard transmission vs the DSG (auto)... it is the same manual handed out for each.
Sorry I miss spoke. The hitch does connect into the side rails, but as I remember the connection is only one additional bolt per side instead of both in the frame rail. The second set of bolts are some distance into the rail and have a better lever arm for support increasing the strength of the mounting into the car. But if you don't need the strength then all is OK with me. I was merely attempting to clarify the differences not denigrate your choice of hitch. I apologize if it seemed that way.
By the way the Euro style does not connect in anyway to the attach points that the bumper was removed from. Those holes are sealed with RTV.

If the both pickup points were use it is possible the hitch could be good for that 1500-1800 KG depending on the strength of the rest of the hitch.
The Torklift looks like a good hitch if you are not planning to use the total towing capability of the car (European rating that is) which would go to nearly 4000 lbs depending on the equipment and trim.
I was going to look the UK ratings up on the UK VW site, but they are closed for "Housekeeping" I guess.
Sorry about the mistake on the hitch.
Below are some drawings of the Torklift:



In this case the old bumper bar bolts on over the new hitch bar:



If the ratings for the Torklift meets your needs then then all is good.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:50 PM   #88
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Sorry, but I have to ask. Is that towing with a VW or is it polluting with a VW?


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That would be obNOXious towing.

Since I have two of them I am pretty interested in the outcome.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:56 PM   #89
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Speaking of bumpers and attachment points; drove past a Lexus that was parallel parked on a major street here today. The entire rear "bumper" was laying on the ground, kind of hanging from the car. There didn't appear to be any other damage ( like would occur if it had been rear-ended ).
Oddly, the parking space behind it was open.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:13 PM   #90
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That would be obNOXious towing.



Since I have two of them I am pretty interested in the outcome.

I'm betting you are going to get a substantial settlement when all is said and done. I think it will be difficult for VW to climb back up to prominence in das auto world. I cannot understand what made them think they wouldn't eventually get caught.


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Old 09-26-2015, 08:14 PM   #91
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(Clip) There isn't a separate manual for my model car for those with a standard transmission vs the DSG (auto)... it is the same manual handed out for each.[/QUOTE]
=============================================
Then the questions is that if the owners manual differentiates between towing with the std vs the automatic transmission or not. If not, where did the Do Not Tow information for the automatic transmission come from that you mentioned.

Perhaps an individual manufactures is lacking in proper info, but for the most part, manufacturers are including adequate information for all models.

My 12 y.o. TV's owners manual has tow ratings for each of about 12 different configurations of the vehicle for which it is intended. Variations covered are automatic vs. 5 speed, 2 dr vs. 4 door, 2 or 4 wd and 1 special trim level.

The days of the suggested "Rubber Stamp" owners manuals are long gone, there is to much liability resting on the manufacturers to do anything less.

And, if one manufacturer isn't putting the necessary towing info in their manual, there is no reason to paint all others with that accusation.



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Old 09-26-2015, 08:27 PM   #92
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Speaking of bumpers and attachment points; drove past a Lexus that was parallel parked on a major street here today. The entire rear "bumper" was laying on the ground, kind of hanging from the car. There didn't appear to be any other damage ( like would occur if it had been rear-ended ).
Oddly, the parking space behind it was open.
Me thinks that what you saw on the ground might have been what is now called a "Bumper Cover", The real bumper, for collision purposes, is the ugly metal part behind the cover. As the result of usually minor collisions, bumper covers are left along side the freeways in L.A. on almost a daily basis, thus becoming a secondary collision risk when they drift out into traffic lanes.



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Old 09-26-2015, 08:33 PM   #93
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I realize it's the cover which is why "bumper" was in quotes. Should have stuck around to see the expression on the Lexus owner's face when they returned. It sure didn't take much to knock it off, given that the Lexus was parked and I presume the other vehicle was parking.
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Old 09-27-2015, 03:15 AM   #94
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Yup totally agree the VW Touareg is an impressive little vehicle! Which reminds me that I need to go buy my Loto Max ticket!

But it sure leaves one questioning the validity of the suggestion by a certain Prop Hitch installer that VW is so scared of being sued in North America they have not put any tow spec of any kind on some of their other vehicles......especially head scratching considering not only did they put a NA tow spec on the Touareg they have put a whopping 7700lb tow spec on it! Which btw is a higher tow spec than some popular mid sized trucks. It is also not a vehicle that they sell in Mass numbers due to its cost, so it kind of blows that theory out the window as well.

Pricey to be sure, but no more so than my 2015 F150 Lariat - and similar towing capacity, with great fuel economy. Really hard to beat a Touareg as a tow vehicle, provided you have the means.


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Old 09-27-2015, 07:50 AM   #95
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I don't know if VW's reluctance to give a tow rating is related to liability issues, but rather warranty concerns. The warranty is longer in the US than most other countries and covers more of the car. Like the towing issues on the DSG. The clutches in the DSG actually outlast the DMF flywheel by quite a bit being oil bath and multiple disc. There is little if any difference in the DSG vs. manual ratings in the UK and Germany.

What is happening now in VW is the culture will be challenged and hopefully changed.

VW's offerings in the US have always been limited and trailed behind the rest of the world. Perhaps with the culture shift VW will consider tow ratings for their passenger cars, but most likely they will instead build more CUVs and SUVs since those are more popular and have higher profit margins (assuming survival!). The new Tiguan will still be built on the Golf/Jetta platform, just taller with a higher CG.

As to the restrictive Euro towing standards what is the problem with that? We are talking height of hitches that match trailers. You just need fewer drop and rise adapters etc. Their "odd" electrics mostly are to detect lamp failures and insure good grounds with multiple pins (13 pin). Electric brakes vs surge brake would be an issue, but a rather small one. Tests have shown that the time advantage for the electric over surge is less than .3 seconds. Also testing has shown that in the case of sway putting on the trailer brakes, while a good thought, is usually not done in time to actually help control the vehicle.

The European and now US electronic trailer stabilization is a great safety addition and one reason I am using the VW TDI wagon for towing. In the case of detected trailer sway the computer accelerates or brakes individual wheels as necessary along with giving steering cues as well through the electric power steering system.

I understand all of the hullabaloo about liability etc whch is why my insurance company has the trailer and tow car on the policy and their concern was the wear and tear on the VW while towing not the liability of the pair.

Engineering wise I am not concerned about the loads etc. I have taken pains to keep the weight within reason and close to the axle centerline. I have lengthened the frame to allow for the front bath and also reduce the tongue loading. This also increases stability of the system.

Others should not tow with cars that they are concerned about the ratings in the US, but people should be aware of what smaller cars are capable of.
One hopes that with the new SAE guidelines manufacturers would test and rate both trucks and cars like they do in Europe where testing has been required for a long time. Of course they don't have the Davis dam road to use to test.
There are several items of importance here.

1. Stability under tow - mostly determined by the trailer geometry and loading
2. Pulling capability and cooling of the systems.
3. Braking (Discs at all four corners etc), but again this is determined by the trailer brakes.
4. Percentage of weight of the tow vehicle vs the trailer. Looking at trucks I wonder if this should really be a part of #1 above. I have seen many trucks towing trailers that make me wonder about them more than my VW and 16' Scamp.

I apologize for continuing to post on this thread since I said earlier I would not. Mostly because these discussions go the same way with the same people contributing the same "facts" and opinions. It seems to be mostly related to liability and not the capability of any particular TV - trailer combination or engineering limitations.
Perhaps one day I will learn how to let it go.

Sorry again for being one of the few that have no concern towing with my now obNOXious VW TDI. (Bob - Here I mean that I don't worry about towing with the VW TDI and Scamp even with the news that the TDI has been cheated by VW to pass NOX emission standards. If (in the southern slang) Y'all have concerns about my towing with the VW TDI then chill out, I know the trailer is back there, but it tows well and is very stable and no performance worries, even in 110* Texas heat.

If there is a flood of TDIs on the market cheap then if you have the fortitude to maintain one it makes a great tow car for the small eggs, US ratings taken inder personal advisement.

Being an engineer and in R&D for about 45 years I have a little bit of experience with things that roll and break (or not). I can make my own decisions. I can also ramble about a little.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:29 AM   #96
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(clip) "Sorry again for being one of the few that have no concern towing with my now obNOXious VW TDI. "


Are you saying that you have no concern towing with your vehicle or are you saying that we have no concern about you towing with your chosen vehicle. The context is somewhat confusing.


If the former, having no concern about towing with anything is concerning, somewhat like the guy that sez "I don't even know it's there. Both are bad ideas.


But there should soon be a flood of used TDI's on the market for those that want to try one.


And I seriously doubt that any insurance company puts concerns about wear and tear on a vehicle above their liability, insurance companies don't make money that way, and they make lots of money. An agent cannot speak for the company, their job is to sell policies, not contain claims. When you have something in writing, from an officer of the company, you will have something to talk about, until them all you have is talk, aka heresay.


And (but not last) a few <cr>'s makes posts more apt to be read.....



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Old 09-27-2015, 08:34 AM   #97
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For sure the guy in the Duramax pickup didn't see the vid of the T-Teg towing the Jumbo Jet prior to taking on the VW.



https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...DEC54778F74F3D
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Old 09-27-2015, 09:00 AM   #98
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Isn't this about the 27th time we have seen this publicity stunts youtube? Lets at least try to talk about FGRV related topics.



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Old 09-27-2015, 09:13 AM   #99
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Maybe it has to with the trailers here being built different, making for liabilities I'm not aware of? In Holland and Germany the frame sides from back to hitch are full length, not a rectangle with a V shape welded on later. When I picked up Truus I took it to Kal-Tire in Langley, they put new tires on, commented on the axle/ frame having suspension, as well as surge- and Ebrakes. I do not know if a statistic can be found that shows Europe versus North America accidents with trailers.
The TDI Jetta wagon (mine is 2005) was Tow Vehicle of the year more than once.
Sadly for the environment, in Europe bigger is becoming better for vehicles and trailers. If my Jetta has to go, I'll replace it with another VW diesel. I love how well it is built, and how it handles. VW in Tennessee cheated, not a good thing- but pollution-wise they would still be much better than all the overkill fuelguzzlers common here.
Don't apologize, Redbarron. Maybe it will make a difference if we start going to VW dealerships and ask about the towing weight rating, and ask WHY the wagons are rated 500kgs (1100 lbs) if at all? Sqeeking wheels might get some grease that way.
I just wished I'd imported a TDI with hitch and electric socket along with the trailer and had it sent to Halifax. I could have driven the combo back here and have that off the bucket list :-)
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Old 09-27-2015, 09:30 AM   #100
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This thread is spinning, and spiralling down. Please read and respect the Community Rules, notably this one.
  • Do not take every opportunity to express your disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, or fan flames. Voice your opinion respectfully and then let it go.

There is no need to go on and on, stressing the same point.

Here is a link to the Community Rules for your review.

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