Towing without overdrive - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-27-2013, 09:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo
Suggest you read the manual for your vehicle to determine if you should tow in overdrive or not. Doesn't much matter what other people do.

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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Glenn,
If everyone followed that doctrine, then half of our posts would not appear.
imagine how far the posts would further drop if people actually read the question asked!
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:10 PM   #30
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On my 2007 silverado tow/haul will go into OD, it just shifts a lot later for more pulling power getting up to speed. Pulling my Scamp dont use it. Chevy recommends according to manual you can tow in drive, use tow/haul when your pulling 75% or over the tow rating. Researching it a bit tow/haul increases line pressure, for crisper shifts,less heat. Havent done a real good mileage test on mine, but to me tow/haul on my truck seems to burn more fuel (could be me,my gearing or ?) Ill have to try it next trip (at 4.09 gallon worth a shot)
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:14 AM   #31
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Thats true currently but again we still have people here telling people over and over to get a trans cooler and many of the manufactures include them in their towing packages -even on manual shifts.

So my question again is why is that?
Carol,
I think you might be getting confused or getting some incorrect or conflicting info. I can't think off the top of my head any factory OE cooler on a manual transmission. There would need to be a pump to move the gear oil from the transmission thru lines to a cooler. Such a pump is not part of a manual transmission. To be honest, it is not needed for a manual transmission except in rare cases like for instance in a Nascar racer.
Most manual transmissions probably only run in the neighborhood of 170 to 190 degrees, even when under the load of towing. That is not high enough to worry over, especially if the oil is synthetic, which some manufacturers suggest or require.
Auto transmissions by their very function have a pump in them, so it's an easy enough design situation to include lines and a cooler to attempt to keep operating temps correct. Typically, they also use the transmission "cooler" to warm up the oil from cold starts and during cold weather also. Auto transmissions like to have their oil run within a fairly narrow temp range for best shifting and most efficient operation. Efficient operation is important when trying to optimize fuel economy.

Some of the manufacturers ( Ford and GM come to mind ) state lower tow ratings with some of their manual trans vehicles ( Ranger and Colorado/Canyon ) most likely because they use a rather small clutch, so it become the "weak link in the chain", especially with less skilled drivers.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:45 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
Carol,
Some of the manufacturers ( Ford and GM come to mind ) state lower tow ratings with some of their manual trans vehicles ( Ranger and Colorado/Canyon ) most likely because they use a rather small clutch, so it become the "weak link in the chain", especially with less skilled drivers.


Thanks George! the clutch being smaller makes sense as to my original question in regards to why a manual vehicle might have a lower tow cap than the same car with an automatic transmission.

As I mentioned I do understand why an automatic requires a transmission cooler. It was just that I have noticed that many times here when someone asks about towing with such and such a vehicle we have a number of people who will suggest the poster needs to get a transmission cooler added - with no distinction made regarding automatic vs a manual transmission even though the vehicle comes either way. Same with a number of "how to tow" type websites some of which encourage the use of a transmission cooler - again no distinction made between manual and auto. Its been a bit of a head scratcher, that had me questioning if I was missing something and perhaps using a transmission cooler might also make a difference on a manual in some way.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:54 PM   #33
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This has been a fascinating thread, so thanks!

Clutch size huh? My clutch is 9-1/8", which is small compared to full size trucks I've had. My last V8 truck had a 11-7/8 clutch!

The point is, I don't use my clutch hardly at all when I'm towing. It's the 4 cylinder motor that drives me nuts! I want a 6 or an 8, or a 4 cylinder with a lot more oomph!

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Old 05-28-2013, 04:42 PM   #34
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I think manufacturers downgrade manual transmission tow ratings because the heat generated on the clutch has nowhere to go when being used, automatics pump the heat away just by their nature
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:44 PM   #35
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I think manufacturers downgrade manual transmission tow ratings because the heat generated on the clutch has nowhere to go when being used, automatics pump the heat away just by their nature
Do most semitrailer rigs use an automatic or a manual transmission?
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:28 PM   #36
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Do most semitrailer rigs use an automatic or a manual transmission?
Indeed, virtually all heavy trucks are manual transmissions.

And for what it's worth, not all manufacturers of consumer level vehicles down rate the tow cap for their same vehicle with manual trans. Nissan Frontier has the same tow rating manual or automatic. I believe the Toyota Tacoma was the same a few years ago.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:45 PM   #37
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Indeed, virtually all heavy trucks are manual transmissions.

And for what it's worth, not all manufacturers of consumer level vehicles down rate the tow cap for their same vehicle with manual trans. Nissan Frontier has the same tow rating manual or automatic. I believe the Toyota Tacoma was the same a few years ago.
Exactly. The tow ratings can be a bit capricious.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:55 PM   #38
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Exactly. The tow ratings can be a bit capricious.
For sure. As a for instance, Ford Motor Company would no doubt prefer that you buy a F series truck instead of a Ranger, so it could very well be they rate the Ranger at an abnormally low tow cap, for that very reason ? Pure conjecture on my part..... I am not a fly on the wall in the marketing dept meetiings.....
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:15 PM   #39
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For sure. As a for instance, Ford Motor Company would no doubt prefer that you buy a F series truck instead of a Ranger, so it could very well be they rate the Ranger at an abnormally low tow cap, for that very reason ? Pure conjecture on my part..... I am not a fly on the wall in the marketing dept meetiings.....
Lots of fingers in the pie. Performance reviews are in part based on warranty claims. If you own clutch warranty would you set towing at 2000# or 5000#?
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:20 PM   #40
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Lots of fingers in the pie. Performance reviews are in part based on warranty claims. If you own clutch warranty would you set towing at 2000# or 5000#?
Very true. I would suspect that the OEM's would prefer manual gearboxes simply go away. An automatic takes most of the driver skill part of the equation out of play.
I just happen to be one of the hard heads that still likes a hand shaker. Not sure what I am going to do when the time comes to replace this Frontier. Ha, may just have to keep doing whatever it takes to keep it on the road.

Having said all that, automatics do in fact work well. We have an automatic ( 5R110 ) in the F350, and it does work well. I'm not sure though how it's fuel economy would compare when towing, in normal mode vs tow-haul. When towing with it, I am ALWAYS in tow-haul. But then, when we're pulling with it, it's always "heavy".
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:27 PM   #41
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Very true. I would suspect that the OEM's would prefer manual gearboxes simply go away. An automatic takes most of the driver skill part of the equation out of play.
..........
Manual transmissions have long been offered freely in trucks, but the market share drops and drops as fewer people can drive one. Even if dad can drive one, mom or the kids can't, so they buy an automatic. Many cars don't offer a manual option anymore because the sales volume is too low to pay for the tooling. The good news is that automatics are getting more efficient.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:39 AM   #42
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I think wind has more to do with it.

The prevailing wind is west to east across the plains, so that probably has a lot to do with it. Also the plains are sloped downhill, so getting back you did significantly less up hill. You may still get some benefit from the towing mode. I doubt that it is 20%.



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Just returned from a marathon drive to attend a rally in Nebraska this week and wanted to make some observations. I drove 2800 miles over a period of 8 nights, left on a Sunday night and arrived in Nebraska, Tuesday at noon, left there on Saturday, noon and arrived home tonite at 9 pm. Took the northern way out and the southern way back thru 8 states.
I drove a Dodge Ram 1500 with the Hemi engine towing the 19' Escape with the Andersen hitch. The hitch performed flawlessly, particularly in the plain states with 20-30 mph winds. My trailer weighs around 3400 lbs loaded.
I drove with the trans mission in normal drive on the way out and checked my mileage at every fillip. I was getting between 10.5-11.5 mpg consistently with the engine cruising around 2400rpm under load and 1800rpm cruising. I used mid range and E-90 gas mid range. There were strong headwinds going out and returning.
My return trip I engaged my "Tow Mode" which locks out the overdrive and changes the shift points. Surprising I averaged 11.5-13.5 mpg on the return trip. Other than Missouri in lieu of Iowa, I went thru the same states. I noticed the rpm stayed at 2200 under load and would occasionally drop back to 1800 while cruising.I also noticed it did not shift into the higher rpm range as often as the trip going.
This 200 rpm difference gave me a 20% increase in my mileage, which in my case was about $100 savings.
I wonder if anyone else has done a comparison of the two towing modes, with or without the overdrive. My owner's manual says that you should use the tow mode while towing.
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