Vehicle for mountains

[Steve Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Just keep in mind you will not normally find any moulded fiberglass trailer manufactures at RV shows due to most sell directly from the factory - Bigfoot is one of the few you may find at some RV shows, at it is sold through RV dealers in the US.

Oliver has two crews that are on the road most of the year for the sole purpose of going to RV shows and displaying their trailers along the routes. You can schedule a private showing if they are near your neighborhood.

One team is touring the South and the other is at Quartzsite.

[Del Gue]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Just keep in mind you will not normally find any moulded fiberglass trailer manufactures at RV shows due to most sell directly from the factory - Bigfoot is one of the few you may find at some RV shows, at it is sold through RV dealers in the US.

Ok, thanks. Didn't know that. I learn more each day.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Del Gue

It's also pretty hilly up around Tallahassee.

Wayne, Something to keep in mind as you make preparations to move to the mountain west - and why I still recommend you consider a full-sized pickup with V8 engine in your situation - is that most campsites out there aren't located alongside 4-lane interstate highways with nice gradual grades. As an example, there is a nice little Alvarado Campground (San Isabel National Forest) near where I grew up in Colorado. The shortest route to it from Interstate-25 along the front range of the Rockies is Hardscrabble Pass, a two-lane paved stretch of Colorado Highway 96 heading West out of Pueblo. There is a stretch of Hwy 96 from Wetmore to Westcliffe where you climb from 6,000 to 11,000 feet in elevation in 20 miles, averaging a near 5% grade for that 20 miles, with very few places to pull over (mountain cliff up one side, steep ravine down to a river on the other). In the middle of the pass is about 3 miles of posted 8% grade with several tight switch-backs that repeatedly steal your momentum. You don't want to be under-powered for treks to high-mountain campsites like that (or stuck for 20 miles behind anyone else who is). Once at the park, depending on how severe the winter was on the dirt roads of the campground, it can be ruts, washboard and loose shale to maneuver. Don't get me wrong, the scenery is breathtaking once you're there, and more than worth the trip, but a full-sized truck with V8 engine will make the getting there a whole lot easier and enjoyable. The Ford FX4 Off-Road that you mentioned in an earlier post would certainly be up to the task. It's also nice having the heft of a full-sized pickup going down mountain passes like the Hardscrabble so your camper doesn't start trying to fish-tail you around those tight switchbacks. Again, just my two cents.... Dale

[Del Gue]

Dale,

Lately I have been kicking around a little bit the idea of a Jeep, maybe a Grand Cherokee, or even a Wrangler Unlimited. I say this, knowing, knowing it's less ideal than a F-150. But the truth of it is that I've always wanted a Jeep, clear back to the early '80s. Something inside is telling me to get a Jeep, even if I have to sacrifice the trailer to do it.

Nothing is for certain. It's still an easy 10-14 months before I buy anything. There are many advantages to the F-150, many, that are not lost on me. Lots of power, backup camera with centerline for hitching up, etc. I've never lived in the Rockies...or owned a trailer...and consider the prospect with no illusions.

My noggin tells me to get an F-150, my heart tells me to get a Jeep. Que sera, sera. I haven't done any test drives or anything like that...way too early for that kinda thing. Right now just research on the 'net.

Come November it will be time to start getting serious. I'd put the odds at 80-20 right now that I'll get an F-150. But like in the NFL, on any given day...

Thanks for the educated input, sir. I am trying to go to Montana on vacation this year, and my inclinations when I get back after talking to people in the campgrounds out there with trailers and seeing what they tow with and whether they live out there or are just on a few weeks vacation may help me to see the way a little more clearly.

[Mike Magee]

GC has V8 360 hp, backup camera too (except on Laredo).

[Del Gue]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

GC has V8 360 hp, backup camera too (except on Laredo).

Yup. I think they put 2 different 8 cyl engines in their GC's, the hemi and the huge one.

Unfortunately, I am a lowly paid public servant, and would have to get the 6 cyl if I got one. The diesel would be out of reach, too. It would have to be the 6 or nothing.

[War Eagle]

Wayne, We've never owned a Jeep (unless you count my Dad's old beat up '42 Willies Army surplus), but we also have felt the draw and have looked into them a lot over the years and have even been serious enough too price them from time to time. So what follows is purely armchair perspective and not first-hand experience. There are a lot of happy Jeep owners on this forum, some of whom I'm sure will also respond. First, the full-sized Jeep Grand Cherokee ("GC") with V8 engine is a very popular vehicle in the mountain west and, as Mike alluded to above, is considered by many on this forum to be a great tow vehicle with plenty of inside space for people and stuff and a sturdy roof for a rack if wanted. My wife and I would have probably purchased one years ago except for the historically poor long-term reliability record. The people we know (including family) who love their Jeeps are the type who either lease or trade in before the manufacturer's warranty expires, so any and all maintenance and repairs are covered. We don't do that. We drive our vehicles until they drop, and unfortunately, Jeeps historically haven't done that well on long term reliability. Having said that, I know someone in Hoboken or Tucumcari will chime in and say that they have over a million miles on their 1974 Jeep Cherokee, but that would be a one in a million Jeep. Bottom line, if you're drawn to a Jeep, I say go for it, but again, go big - full-sized Grand Cherokee with the V8 (I'm guessing limited slip rear differential is standard with all wheel drive). It will be a great mountain driving vehicle and camper tow vehicle for you - but check into an extended manufacturer's warranty if offered. Comments from Jeep owners with personal experience?

[Del Gue]

Dale, I have also heard the stories about probs. They make me leery. I am fully cognizant that a certain % of everything, be it toasters, Jeeps, pencils, or people, are defective. I have been on a website today and read real-people reviews of both 2014 GC's and F-150's. The GC's seemed to have a lot more complaints. I would have a lot more confidence going in that an F-150 would last and/or give me fewer problems. But that doesn't diminish the Jeep allure that just seems to beckon. But a Jeep seems much more a calculated risk. But if they were that bad, they wouldn't be selling tons of them...people would simply quit buying them. And yet....they are all over, even down here in flat as a board Florida.


If I can get out to Montana this summer on vacation, I'm thinking it may be a reality check. May get my feets solidly on the ground. Or not. One thing about many Jeep owners...a lot of them are hardcore. They not only have a Jeep, but have had several or many Jeeps. They are much like people in love...can't see the warts...can only see their beloved Jeep. You kinda gotta admire that in them.

[Del Gue]

A Dodge Ram 1500 is also under consideration.

[cpaharley2008]

I really like my new Ram Sport model, 8 speed, built in camera and brake controller.

[War Eagle]

Wayne, The 1/2 ton Ram 1500 is getting a lot of good reviews, and a lot of people around here swear by the 3/4 ton and 1 ton Rams for heavier towing. A neighbor who commercially hauls cattle and horses long distance using goose-neck style trailers burned his way through two 1 ton dually Fords before switching to the same in a Dodge Ram and loves it. So they must be doing something right at Ram, and it certainly seems to be a viable option. Again, others on this forum can give you feedback from their first-hand experience. Back on Jeeps, I think that allure you mentioned works against consumers. In the late 80's, we attempted to negotiate a lower price with salesman at a two different Jeep dealerships, and neither would budge off the list price. One finally confided in us that if we weren't willing to pay full price today, someone else will pay full price tomorrow. So they were willing to wait. I don't know if that is still Jeep's "profit model", but it sure was back then. We ended up getting a great deal (according to Kelly Blue Book) on an '88 Toyota 4Runner instead and never looked back. Having said all that, my heart still skips a beat whenever I see a 4-door Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon!

[Rob Outlaw]

Del I just noticed this thread, missed it before. I'll throw in my two cents worth for a couple of reasons, first I own a 2013 Ford EB and second I live in MT.

The first thing I would encourage you to do is look at the video from the link below where they pit the eco boost against the Ram 1500 diesel and the GMC 6.2 L gas engine. I'll be the first to admit Ford goes a bit over the top with their narration and hoop-da-la enthusiasm but the results speak for themselves. And keep in mind for this test they were using only their new smaller 2.7 L EB engine not the larger 3.5L. Does this mean the other two vehicles are inferior? Hardly, all of them are exceptional and have their own strong attributes that Ford does not address. The point is for anyone not thinking these EB engines are very capable will get a reality check.

2015 Ford F-150 Trucks Video | Uphill Towing Battle | Ford.com

Now if you're still in doubt after viewing this video google, stress test done of the eco boost engines for these trucks and you should be able to come up with some half dozen or more videos of this scenario alone. Effectively before releasing them to the public Ford beat the living hell out of these engines. There may be some other auto company that has done the same level of stress test to their engines but I'm not aware of it. Clearly Ford is betting the bank on their eco boost engines. They are in their cars as well as the trucks. As for people getting poor gas mileage with these EB trucks, here is the way I figure it. It would be an understatement to say these engines are "peppy", by that I mean if you put your foot into they will pin you to the back of your seat, like right now. More importantly I suspect many an individual drives these trucks in this manner even while towing. Its very easy to do. Just don't expect great gas mileage exercising the technique of full throttle.

Aluminum trucks? Truth is they have been putting aluminum hoods on their trucks for years and Jaguar and Range Rover have integrated aluminum for years also. There is nothing new about this and suspect it will be the wave of the future for all cars and trucks sooner rather than later.

Granted there are detractors of the latest and greatest technologies. I am not one of them, but instead prefer to embrace it. Having made a living in a profession (photography) that can only be described as technology intensive if nothing else what I have observed about the human race is, we never turn our back on a technology until it is supplanted by yet another more superior technology. Its what we do. I am reminded of the CEO of REM (Blackberry) standing before the world, out loud and in public joking and detracting about the first iPhone and its eminent demise. The rest is history.

As for old school purely mechanical autos being superior to newer technologies, one only has to think of the Corvair, Ford Fiesta, Ford Bronco, Edsel, International Harvester what ever you call that thing that must have been the first true SUV back in the 60's, and the list is as long as both of our arms put together. I'm sure you get the idea.

While I am very enthusiastic about my Ford truck, I would also be remiss if not stating it might be overkill or at least more than deemed necessary for something as small and light weight as the Scamp you are considering even in the intermountain west… most of the time. However lets say somewhere down the road you decide you either need or want something a bit larger than the scamp, the Ford truck will be able to accommodate that easily. Well assuming you're not thinking of a 60 ft 5th Wheel.

All that out of the way hopefully this next comment will not offend you, its certainly not meant to, but am compelled to bring it to the table. What I find incorrect about your logic regarding camping/rv'ing five years down the road are two fold. First you're going to miss out on five years of fun and there are some very cool and nice places to camp in the deep south and secondly you should get your feet wet in an area where you are already comfortable in, that being the deep south. Start small, it doesn't have to be the end result. Tow with what ever you already have and purchase a small affordable camper sooner rather than later. If need be you can sell these before moving to Big Sky Country and buy new at that point, or any combination of those things. And who knows you may not even like RV'ing. Better to find out now while in FL rather than later.

Ok enough of this novel, but more than willing to share info about MT too.

Hopefully this is helpful

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Rob Outlaw

The point is for anyone not thinking these EB engines are very capable will get a reality check.

2015 Ford F-150 Trucks Video | Uphill Towing Battle | Ford.com

Rob, the vid you posted is impressive and shows how the technology is in high gear especially for tow vehicles. That 2.7 makes the 3.5 in our car seem like a wholly mammoth and I agree the days of big engines is almost over*.

A buddy recently towed a good size TT to the top of Independence Pass (elev 12,000') with a dated GM V6 in an Olds FWD sedan. No problem. My dad back in the 60's towed our 2,000lb 16' shasta up the same climb with a Galaxie V8 and it was a slow go.

*Driving any sort of vehicle is personal preference no offence intended to anyone.

[Del Gue]

Rob, thanks for the input. I actually bumped into information yesterday suggesting that some of the V6's outperform some of the V8's. My curiousity would be if the V6's would be able to endure while performing at that level or if it will strain them more leading to early or earlier failure. The video was certainly impressive and will serve as a catalyst to cause further investigation and research.

As to perhaps I'm engaging a bit in overkill ref vehicle choice and/or requirements, when going into a new uncharted situation, my innate tendency is to err on the side of overkill rather than risk underkill. I realize a Scamp-sized trailer is not enormous, nor enormously heavy. I might verily easily get by with a 6 cyl. As for wanting something bigger in the future, I don't see it. It will just be me, and mebbeso a dog. My requirements are minimal: bed, dinette, bathroom. Up until now I've done all my 'RV'ing' camping in a tent, and often a backpack-sized tent at that. A Scamp/Casita/RPod type trailer would be ideal for me, and is a concession I am making primarily due to getting older. I'm only 57, but sleeping on the ground is less fun than it used to be, and night time bathroom calls are more frequent. With advancing age, I don't expect them to get less frequent.

Your point about getting some kind of trailer and doing some camping and towing on my home turf to start with is well taken, and not something that hasn't occurred to me already. The main constraints are financial. As alluded, I work for local gov't, and don't make tons of money. The plan is, save a sizeable down payment until late this year, early next year and buy a vehicle. My old 2001 Ranger is, like me, getting tired. Then take a couple years to pay off the vehicle. Then save prolly for a couple years and buy a trailer. By then, I will be at or close to retiring. If I could score a trailer before moving, I would happily and camp at Oscar Scherer or Hillsborough or Ft. DeSoto in my area. When on vacation in Montana I usually camp at the Many Glacier campground in Glacier, mainly because I get to see the most bears there. Last year I got up there late and spent 4 days there before they pretty much closed things up, so I dropped down to Madison campground at Yellowstone for about 10 days. Mainly I've been driving mid-sized rental cars up there, and they have gotten around fine. However, driving up there in possibly adverse weather with a trailer strapped on behind, something I haven't done, inspires me to caution and buy enough vehice.

Last year in Madison I was taking a little notice of the smaller trailers, but hadn't made the conscious decision to buy one yet, or even to get a new vehicle yet, so wasn't as observant as I could have been. That is one reason I am wanting to try to come back out this year, even though I might be better served by sitting here on my vacation and using the money I would spend on vacation to assemble the down payment more quickly, is so I can pay more attention to the trailers I see, see what they are being towed with, and whether the owners live there or are just visiting.

I have never either lived in Montana, or any mountainous state, or owned or towed a trailer before, so much of this undiscovered country. There are a few certainties...I AM going to get a new vehicle within the next 12 months...I AM moving to Montana after I retire in late 2020.

I realize that I am just a young padawan with much to learn, both about towing, and trailers and trailer life, and living in Montana. It is my intent to get an appropriate vehicle, and hopefully a trailer, while I am still working with a decent, if not spectacular, income, before I am consigned to living on a fixed income from my retirement and social insecurity. I am trying to get my ducks lined up in the next 5-6 years so that I can have fun when I retire.

I have't decided where in Montana I want to move to. That will be the subject of probably a couple of vacations in the years just before I move out. I will go out for probably close to 3 weeks each time and try to check out various locales and get some idea where I want to relocate to.

Mebbeso if I looked around, after I get my new vehicle payed off, I could score a cheap(er) used trailer. Or maybe I'll just assemble a decent down payment the first year and then try to finance the rest of a trailer purchase. Believe me, I agree with the wisdom of getting something sooner rather than later and getting some experience, esp before moving.

I have put in for pretty much the first 2 weeks of September off this year, and assuming I don't get bumped by anyone, I'm thinking to head to Glacier for maybe 5-6 days and then drop down to Madison again. How much time I spend at either place would be adjustable one way or another.

[MC1]

Wayne, have you considered a good used Honda Ridgeline. For comfort, reliability, resale, and versatility you can't beat it. More power than you will need.

[Del Gue]

Wayne,

I haven't ruled anything out, other than the small SUV's. I'll look into the Ridgeline a little.

And that pic just looks like you were having all kinds of fun!! Wish I was there instead of here!

Rob,

I have witnessed 'trailer creep' myself when it happened to friends. Get one, then want a bigger one, then a bigger one, etc. While I don't see myself moving past anything the size of a Scamp, one of the things they taught us in college was not to use absolutes, words like 'always' and 'never'. So although I don't foresee myself moving bigger than a Scamp, I am disinclined to say that it would be absolutely impossible and never happen. ;-)

[Steve Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Del Gue

Unfortunately, I am a lowly paid public servant, and would have to get the 6 cyl if I got one. The diesel would be out of reach, too. It would have to be the 6 or nothing.

We bought a 2009 Jeep Unlimited to pull our first Oliver. BIG mistake, first trip into the West right out of Pagosa Springs I thought we were gonna stall out. Pedal to the metal, 4500 RPM, 2nd gear, 25 MPH. Don't do it unless you're trying to pull less than 2000 lb.

If you're traveling the West, with anything very heavy, get a full size Pickup with plenty of torque. I've never been sorry that I bought something that was a little over-sized for the job at hand.

Don't get me wrong about a Jeep. I have a '92 Wrangler bought brand new and I love it. If it would pull out current Oliver I'd be using it. I wish we could tow it along behind the trailer. Hmmmm.....

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Del Gue

Wayne,

I haven't ruled anything out, other than the small SUV's. I'll look into the Ridgeline a little.

And that pic just looks like you were having all kinds of fun!! Wish I was there instead of here!

No, that isn't our Ridge in the pic above Wayne but my buddy's wife has one here in Canada and luv's it. Our TV is a V6 G35 sedan. One tough hill we did once was getting up to Watkins Glen State Park. It was a 1st gear climb but no issue. Funny thing is my pal who lives near here has the same 23' trailer. He goes to the races in Watkins Glen but is reluctant to try towing his trailer up the same hill. His TV is a newish Tundra V8. Hummm.

[Del Gue]

Steve,

That's exactly the situation I am striving valiantly to avoid!! That's why I'm trying to do my homework and choose wisely before I purchase the vehicle and before I purchase the trailer.

I would love a Jeep. I've always wanted a Jeep. But I've got serious reservations that a Jeep is in my best interests given my plans and requirements. But that little fact doesn't keep me from wanting one one little bit!

[Del Gue]

Wayne,

It sounds like your friend is the type of guy who Dirty Harry Callahan was talking about when he said, "A good man's got to know his limitations."