The 1321lb strange number in metric is 600kg.
I live in the US and Poland. It is interesting to compare opinions from both sides of the Atlantic. I am finalizing the purchase of Niewiadow N126D (better known in Canada as Cadet) to be pulled by my Opel Astra with a 1.4l engine (if 2l is a lawn mower engine the 1.4l should be from a weed eater). Trailer GVW is 650kg (X 2.2 = 1430lb) with an available load of 120 kg (264lb). The Opel Astra towing capacity is 850kg (1870lb) for a trailer with brakes and 550kg (1210kg) without. In the US I have a 21’Bigfoot towed by an F350 with 7.3 diesel which gives me a good perspective to compare pluses and minuses on each side of the pond.
With my Astra I get 43-46mpg cruising at 80mph (max highway speed in Pl) not towing, with towing it will likely be around 25mpg. With gas average price at $6/US Gal in EU or $8 in Norway folks here pay more attention to gas mileage then in the US. Reading an average car review in EU, the primary evaluation criteria is gas mileage followed down the list by acceleration. So, acceleration or towing speed up a hill is not as critical here as they tend to be in the US. Back in the eighties, I had a Fiat Spider 2000 with a proud number of 9 sec to 60mph which was not as good as the current 7sec for a F150 pick-up truck.
Regarding towing regulations, the EU is more stringent than the US, even though towing capacities are higher here for the same passenger car than in the US. For example: hitch installation must be approved by an appropriate agency and approval needs to be stamped in the car’s registration. If the police suspects an overweight trailer they would weigh the trailer right on the road (especially in Germany) and in case of a violation not allow further driving. Maximum towing allowed is a lower number from either hitch or car capacity documented in a registrationlicense.
Weight distribution hitches are not used in the EU so tongue weight is critical. For my Astra/Niewiadow combination the tongue weight of 40kg (88lb) is recommended with a maximum weight of 60kg (132lb). As an interesting note, all cars in the EU have either automatic or manual headlight leveling to assure correct adjustment with different loads; for towing this is a great feature.
It is easy for all of us to prefer what we are accustomed to. For many years, governments in Europe used fuel sale taxes and registration fees to induce technology development toward better gas mileage and to lower gas consumption. So it should not be a surprise that the RV industry in Europe is very different than in the US. I remember once a couple stopped at our campsite praising the look of our 21’ Bigfoot, their first (and last) question was how many pullouts it has?; none and the discussion stalled. I have not seen one pullout in Europe.
Different folks have different strokes, but for some the common desire in the US as in Europe is camping. I wish that Europe would learn from the US about superior campgrounds and the US would learn from Europe about light weight RV technology.
I am looking forward to using my new Niewiadow for a one month trip next year in France and compare our experience with using our Bigfoot in the US.
George. http://www.niewiadow.pl/katalog/cat/11/item/246
I have a 2008 VW City Golf (2.0 litre, manual trans) with a Towing Capacity of 1321 lbs (taken from the manual) - trailer hitch Class 1 and 2. I am shopping for a 13' Boler, loaded = 1250 lbs. I talked to the VW dealer - they say it's fine - but I'm getting a sense from this website that I'm crazy to consider such a thing.
We live in the city and hardly drive our car during the week - in fact, it's relatively new (20000 kms - 20 months old) so I'd hate to have to purchase a new vehicle just to tow an rv - we'd take a hit, for sure ($$) . We have recently 'rediscovered' camping with our 2 small children this summer and hope to be able to purchase a Boler asap. Is this combo safe or should I stick to a tent?
Is there anyone out there towing a Boler with a small car?
HI Melanie
I just bought a 73 boler, and I have an 2003 Jetta Tdi 5 speed manual, I towed this trailer an hour home, and here is what i noticed:
NOTHING.....it is a dream to tow, ..........i think with the Tdi engine, it has a little more low end torque than the gassers, and this will help with towing, I like to call myself am avid VW fan, and have done a lot of research into the tdi and VW's in general
but here are some things to consider:
1) in europe, the tow rating for a new MK6 (which is what you have, anything from 2006 and newer) the tow rating is 3200 Lbs, but that is with a European hitch, this included gas and TDI's
the difference in hitches is that our N. american hitches attach to the sheet metal on the drivers side spare wheel well, and the tow hook on the passenger side
the European hitch replaces the metal bumper (behind the plastic bumber) and is inserted into the frame channels
this is the N. American hitch as you can see on the left it attaches to the sheet metal on the drivers side this is a class I so rated for 2000#
so I would say that you would be okay towing a boler trailer up to 2000#'s with a class I N. American hitch, so long as you add brakes, cause your car is a lot lighter than a Jetta, but the hitch is not an issue either way you go, I would think that stopping is more important than going....!!
a N. american hitch will run you about $200
to buy a European hitch, (shipped from over sea's) will run you about $400 + install which is a lot more complex but still a DIY job!!
hope this helps
I would not hesitate to tow a Boler with your NEW VW, even if it was slightly over the N. American tow rating, the car can handle it, so long as you drive accordingly
I would not hesitate to tow a Boler with your NEW VW, even if it was slightly over the N. American tow rating, the car can handle it, so long as you drive accordingly
This kind of quote amazes me. Although in this case it doesn't matter, because the original poster has decided to get a car that IS rated to tow her trailer (*with* the load she expects to carry), but don't you worry a little bit advising this sort of thing? I mean, if she goes out and tows over the legally rated capacity, and gets into an accident, I guess you'll take responsibility?
I know I probably sound a bit cheesed off, but that's because I have to share the road with everyone out there. Even people towing over their capacity. It just makes it worse when others say hey, no problem, I think you can tow over your capacity just fine.
well, she is not towing over her capacity, the car is rated for 3200#, albeit in Europe
trailer is nothing close to that!!!!, ......don't know where the discrepancy is!!!
and i guess i am up **** creek as well, cause MY car is only rated for 1000 # according to the manual, ............ the trailer is easily, lets say 950 # (it is most likely more than this), so add me and a passenger and two dogs, camping supplies, food.....etc........ I am way over the limit, ..........
and you never speed either right, ....towing or not?
just my .02
why would i be responsible for someone else's actions? SHE would be choosing to pull it, and SHE would be hooking it up, ............do you believe everything you see on TV, ......I mean i saw a guy last night on tv, who fell 6 stories down a stair well, landed on a guy who he previously shot, and he walked away, .......you going to go and try that???
Common sense prevails........but it is still not ill advise, just stating the facts!!!!
Really? Why would anyone recommend towing with improper equipment? Seriously this floors me every time it happens.
#1, it's a family that your saying, you wouldn't hesitate to tow despite maybe being slightly over the tow recommendations.
There have been several post about the liability of doing so as well. Is it worth it?
Being an avid rv-er for most of my life, ummmmmmmm since I was 4 (my parents purchased their first bumper pull) I am 50 now! I can't tell you of how many situations I have heard of over the years where someone was hurt or even killed due to a over weight tow getting out of control and causing serious issues. As an adult, seeing accidents where a "perfect towing situation" got out of hand and the scene of the accident the trailer is strewn all over the road is not a pretty scene.
With perfect towing set up's things occur that can cause accidents all the time. So let me assure you, there more likely to be a bigger issue when the tow cap exceeded.
Have you ever been towing when the trailer your towing gets going crazy? It's not a fun experience even with a vehicle that has more tow capacity. Not fun at all! So I can assure you, you don't want to be in a vehicle that is pushing it's limits to start with.
Soooooo you guys have not really read my post did you?
In my first post where did I mention that she was pulling over the limit of the CAR!!!!???
Please point this out to me cause I have re read my post a couple of times and I keep missing it???
I did say however that the CAR in question with a proper European hitch is rated for 3200#, so your saying a boler is over 3200#'s???
How is this giving wrong advise? That is a FACT! Look it up, better yet call an European VW dealer like I did and ask them!!!!
The car is rated for 3200#'s with a proper hitch
The limiting factor here in N. America is the way the hitch is attached to the car, NOT the car itself ,and the reason we don't have European hitches here in N. America is because of the 10 mph bumpers,(or whatever you want to call them) when adding the European hitch you no longer have the required 10 mph bumper and therefore it is not allowed in N. America, but this has nothing to do with towing or capacity of the car
And have I had a trailer "get crazy" on me, no, how fast were you driving for that to happen? Obviously you were driving outside of the ability of either the trailer or the TV, yeah there are always those what if's and things out of your control, but if you have had a crazy trailer situation then you did something wrong period!!!
Robin and I understood the original poster to be towing with a North American car on North American roads, therefore she would be towing overweight.
There is no speed limit on the Audubon (in places); by your logic that means I can drive 120mph here in the US.
It does sound like you are towing considerably overweight. All of the Boler 13's I know of are closer to 1500# loaded. That said, the only way to know for sure is to have an individual trailer weighed.
At any rate, of course you can do what you choose to, even if it contradicts the owner's manual of your vehicle and/or the laws of your country. But advising others to do the same seems inadvisable to me.
What is it that you don't understand about the fact that we are NOT IN EUROPE dude?
IMO, your advice is totally an unrealistic bunch of crap, and could easily place others in jeopardy if they were naive enough to listen to your half-baked "advice".
I hope that I never have the misfortune as to be on the same piece of road with you on it.
So my car the OP's and most VW's in Europe are all made in the same place, MEXICO!!!, and all of them are made to the same specs, so why can they tow more weight in Europe? Regardless of the country it is driven in the cars are the same!
The difference in the tow rating here is because of the HITCH!!! Not the car, all the cars are the same
If you were to put a N. American hitch onto a car driven on the roads in Europe, the tow capacity is reduced to 2000#'s because of the hitch, not because of the car and if they were to tow 3200#'s on a 2000# hitch they would get in trouble even though the rating for them in Europe is 3200#'s
So going back how is this bad advise? The car with a proper hitch (a European one) can tow up to 3200#'s
With a north American hitch it can town 2000
As for legal actions, if you got into an accident using a European hitch towing 3000#'s in north America there is really no charge involved as the car with that hitch is rated for 3200#'s regardless of what country you are in
You would however be in violation of the 10mph bumper restriction cause you have to remove it from your car to properly install the European hitch
You will not win this argument. I have tried, and failed. I used tomdrivemamGolf TDI, so I know where you are coming from. The Toyota I drive now has a zero pound tow rating in the US. It has a 1,700 pound rating in Europe. Europe is magical... That's all there is to it. ;-)
I was towing my un-braked Scamp today and heading for a red light when a BMW decided at the last second to squeeze between me and the car ahead of me. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the car stopped the trailer without a fuss. I was nowhere near the limit of the brakes. The weak point of my setup is power. My engine has little torque at low RPMs. Still, I'm only going 50-55 MPH, so that's no sweat... I'm just avoiding the Rockies for now.
The thing is, there is nothing to "win." I agree with both of you. The cars you speak of are rated to tow different amounts in different countries. That may be a function of variation in the cars themselves, variations in how trailers are set up (e.g. lower tongue weights in Europe), or there may be no difference at all.
But the fact is, the cars are rated to tow a certain amount in North America. When people tow with those cars in North America, they are rated to tow a specific amount. This is a fact, and not a contest.
If people want to tow more than their car is rated for - in the country for which the car was built, and in which they are using the car - that is their choice. But that does not mean that it fits within the ratings.
You may be able to tow a 3,000 pound trailer with your North American Golf. But you will not be towing within the guidelines that were published earlier in the thread (from the owner's manual). That's your choice. I don't see where it is an argument to "win."
If you were to have an accident while towing over the rating, I wonder if the other party would figure "Well, this would not have been a problem in Europe, so we'll just let it go"? Hopefully you never find out.
Again, my problem is not that you are towing over the limit published for your car in North America. That is your choice, and the odds of me meeting you on the road are slim. But I do feel that I need to speak out when you are recommending the practice to others.
Luckily the person who started this thread (as I'm sure you noticed when you reviewed it) has decided to buy a car that is rated appropriately. She not only had a trailer to tow, but four passengers and gear. But still, other newbies may search it out from the archives and read it.
I tow with a 4-cylinder car myself, so I am not one to recommend a Mack Truck for everything (I realize that there are people who do that; I am not one of them).
I saw two dudes ride a small goped to colorado in a movie once. I wouldn't do this.
I am not shocked to hear people openly declare they tow more than their cars are rated for. I see trailers whizz by me at 75 in the fast lane on the freeway sometimes. I see kids ghost ride the whip
They have a place for all this stuff. It's called the Darwin Awards...
We actually have an MK6 Jetta Sportwagen TDI. Would never consider towing the Scamp with this.
You can't really argue with people who are set in their ways. The original question might as well have been "what religion is best". Maybe they'll go their whole life and never have an issue with an underrated rig. Maybe they'll have a blowout on their first trip, fly off the road and be seriously hurt or killed. No one knows.
I think that we digress. The situation appears to me as follows. Melanie asked for advice on the subject of towing a Boler with her current vehicle, received the requested advice, evaluated the advice and made what she thought was the appropriate decision as it relates to the safety of her family. I agree with her decision and admire the way she went through the process ( I really like the fact that the Boler is still in the running when an appropriate vehicle is on deck and hope to meet Melanie and family at one of our gatherings in the future ). All the rest is the same old rhetoric we have seen on this forum on numerous occasions and serves no useful purpose.. Lee
Yes, as I mentioned, the original poster has solved her problem, and is going to purchase a different vehicle when the time comes to purchase and tow a Boler.
That said, there are many threads on FGRV that continue on after the original poster is "done" because the threads stay open (and I'm glad they do). As in this case (apparently), someone finds it via search, or just paging back, and then pipes in. Sometimes the thread comes back to life, regardless of whether the thread starter knows or cares.
The threads aren't necessarily always brilliant, but then that's the Internet - a mix if there ever was one.
Y'all will never convince anyone of anything in print. Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. There's a saying, "Opinions are wonderful things, they allow you to rapidly reach a conclusion without facts." In order for something to be an actual FACT, all information must come from the same box. You can't just pick and choose the information you would like to believe to be true, ignore the rest and develop a FACT. Whatever is going on in Europe for instance, does not apply on this continent.
YMMV
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Whatever is going on in Europe for instance, does not apply on this continent.
Actually, we do have the same laws of physics and the gravity here is very similar.....
But the big, big difference is how (and at what speed) trailers are towed and what the driver is expected to be able to deal with. If you want to use a European tow rating, you need to apply European towing practices - and few North American tow-ers will be willing to do that.
I guess you could say that I follow European driving habits -- I drive slower with a trailer, maintain a safe distance behind other vehicles, scan ahead for potential dangers, and don't really care if people behind be have to drive 5 MPH slower than they want to.
It is unfortunate that we consider these to be "European" habits and not just common sense. I will agree, however, that there is a real lack of common sense on US roadways.
Trailer: 1981 Scamp 13 ft / 2005 Volkswagen Golf TDI
Posts: 40
I towed my 13' Scamp with my '05 VW Golf TDI exactly once - to get it home so I could tear it apart and repair it. I went fairly slow - 60-65MPH on the interstate - and had no trouble towing it (in fact it towed beautifully), but that was in the flatlands of Illinois on a nice day with almost no wind. I'm still working on the floor panel replacement that turned into a complete teardown (I'll post soon) so I haven't been able to tow it since. However, it dawned on me that I'd be a fool to tow this thing without brakes and a good brake controller. The brakes on this car are small, and it wouldn't take too many panic stops to warp the front brake rotors. Long, steep downhill runs without trailer brakes? Huh-uh, no thanks. IMHO, all but the smallest trailers should have brakes when towed by lighter cars or other small vehicles. My Scamp frame is up on stands now, and I hope to install brakes this coming week.
Mk IV Golfs and Jettas (1999.5 to 2005) are infamous for scraping bottom on rough roads, even when unloaded. Besides installing a 3/16" tempered aluminum alloy crash plate under the front, I also replaced my droopy suspension with taller, stiffer springs, front lift spacers and much better struts and shocks. I just put slightly larger tires and wheels on a couple weeks ago. It rides very nicely with a 500lb cargo trailer, lots of cargo in the car and a rooftop box with 150lbs in it. (No, I didn't do all of that just for towing. I also like to go to places only accessible via semi-rough roads while still getting 45MPG.) It's still a fairly light, pretty short car, though. If the wind is up, especially it it's a crosswind, I'm going to sit it out. I know lots of other drivers will hate me, but I'm going to take my time when I tow my Scamp. It just isn't worth it to me to buy, insure, license and maintain a guzzler to tow a travel trailer around six times per year.
When I tow, I plan to put as little in the trailer as possible and put food, tools, cooler etc. in the car. I figure a lighter trailer won't push a heavier car around as much. This will work OK with two people, but it would be mighty hard to do with a family in such a small car. So, Melanie, I agree with you when you say you'll need a bigger tug if you find your Boler.
I forgot to add, on the subject of different towbar mounting in Yurp and Merka, that for the last 10 years or so, towbars in Yurp must have homologated mountings - that is, the manufacturer of the vehicle specifies where a towbar is to be attached and does the calculations about what the towbar must be able to carry.
Be thankful you don't have anything similar in North America, as it means that if the manufacturer thinks towing is inadvisable, or just can't be bothered, they don't homologate the towbar mountings, so it's then illegal to fit a towbar to that model. We use such a wide range of small tow vehicles that few vehicles that have this problem but, for example, Mazda never bothered to homologate mountings for the MX5 (= Miata) so that cannot even tow a little box trailer.
2008 Casita Spirit Deluxe
I'll give you that Andrew! As we all know, even "laws" aren't consistent across state lines here in the U.S. But gravity does keep us all anchored...
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