Wanna tow Scamp 16' with Subaru Forester

[DavArl]

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

Have you thought about the used market ?

Daniel - I would love to purchase from the used market and will check there first before making any purchase. However, from the searches I've conducted so far there are an extremely limited number on the market and I'd like to consider a relatively new vintage. Maybe 2008 and newer. Thanks.

[honda03842]

Dave,
We purchased all of our RVs used, all but one on Craig's List. We bought our 1991 Scamp last year in FL. Since we've been on the road (2 months) we've given 31 tours. Virtually everyone thought it was a new rig, even 2 Casita owners at Myrtle who had rig's 10 years newer than ours.

They do standup very well.

As to hitch loading, we have only one propane tank. I've considered going to a fiberglass propane tank because it allows one to see the Propane Level and is lighter.

As well we keep the water tank half full at all times. This reduces the hitch weight as well. We don't keep water there to reduce the hitch weight, but rather for emergencies. If we know we're going into a boon dock situation we usually fill the water tank.

We try not to go far with anything in the gray or black tanks, dumping at the first opportunity after boondocking.

We do not have a roof top AC unit because I believe they are out of proportion in appearance and probably capability plus I don't like high weight. We don't have an awning because over the years we find we rarely use them and simply have seen too many problems with them when people are off exploring. For they were more useful when weekend camp-ing where there's a tendency to be around the rig all weekend.

The bed is a very individual matter. We have always had a queen bed at home and in our motorhome. We thought we'd have to learn to roll over at night simultaneously in a small trailer in the queen, it's just too big. The small bed turned out to not be a problem for us. Now the problem is when we go home and sleep in the queen, some nights I feel like I slept alone.

Part of it maybe that we're more active when we're traveling and that encourages sleep. If you haven't tried sleeping in a small space you can block off part of your bed at home and get a few laughs.

I'm wishing you well on your adventure.

As to the insurance company, we have Liberty Mutual. They insure our trailer and tow vehicle, our only vehicle. Our tow vehicle was hit once while towing, the insurance company did not blink.

Our tow vehicle is in it's 8th year and has around 160,000 miles on it, about 20,000 a year. I'm sure that the company likes the fact that we're low mileage drivers and actually are typically driving in low traffic areas at low traffic times, no cities and no driving to work.

I suspect that long term RVers are a careful bunch because in some sense they're often out there alone, actually a great feeling.

I will say there's a mind set to RV packing that is different than at least my previous life, one that actually is easier and less hassle once one gets used to it.

Sometimes I think there's too much trepidation in some comments. I never RVed until we retired at 58. In reality it's a fun and exciting life. We've spent well over 2000 nights on the road in the last 11 years, no make that 11 of the best years of our lives......

Wishing you well......

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Vivian Layne-Parkin

firstly I can tell you from our experience, you will overload it at some point! You can be as careful as you want but it will happen, that's just human nature.

LOL Vivian you are so right! I pulled into the Bandon meet once for the weigh in and found the tongue weight on my trailer was 40lbs over what I had thought it would come in at. The reason for the change was I had stopped on my way to the meet and bought a new bike rack for the roof of the car and taken two fairly light road bikes (lots of carbon fiber) out from inside of the trailer (not off the outside back of the trailer) and put them onto the roof of the car...... that resulted in the tongue weight of the trailer going up by 40lbs.

[monasimpson]

Illinois Newbies,

In 2011 I took delivery on a 16 foot Casita, 1785#. TV is 2005 Subaru Outback. This works for me. 22 mpg towing. No problem with overheated transmission. I still have lots to learn about the functionals, but am getting there. So far I enjoy it.

If you are close to WI, come see it. Mona

[DavArl]

Originally Posted by monasimpson

Illinois Newbies,

In 2011 I took delivery on a 16 foot Casita, 1785#. TV is 2005 Subaru Outback. This works for me. 22 mpg towing. No problem with overheated transmission. I still have lots to learn about the functionals, but am getting there. So far I enjoy it.

If you are close to WI, come see it. Mona

Thanks Mona. Is your Outback a 4 or 6 cylinder? I was looking at Casitas but the dry weights they publish for their 16' standard and deluxe are 1970# and 2185#. And I assume these don't include weight of options. Are you sure yours was 1785#? By the way, is it a standard or deluxe and is it a spirit, freedom or liberty? Would definitely be interested in seeing it. I'm seeing a 16' Scamp next weekend in northern Illinois and could head up to Wisconsin depending where you're at. Thanks again for your info!

By the way, Casita quotes a double bed and a 46" bed depending on the brochure. Do you know what it is you get? 46" is not a double bed (54").

[monasimpson]

TV 4 Cyl Subaru Outback

FYI...I purchased a used 1990 16' Casita in AZ. Aero Paradise in Reedsburg, WI spent time and talent gutting and completely renovating it. Usually they redo the inside of aircraft. Everything imaginable is new. The exterior was repainted by an autobody shop.

I recovered cushions, made new curtains, had a new table made. The marine toilet was replaced with a portable in the bathroom.

Picutes are available on this web site...1990 Casita Redo....about Feb 11, 2011.
Check out the mods and alterations forum.

Did I mention that 1785# includes 2 full propane tanks and a 50# battery? Tongue weight is 195#.

[bbuehler]

...depending on the year of manufacture.
Mona's is a 1990 and they were much lighter made 20 years ago than they are now. Now they have double the weight of fiberglass (better constructions) more options that are now STANDARD and werent' 20 years ago, etc...all these variables make the trailers heavier these days than 20 years ago.
You can't go by the 13' or 16' length in determining the weight...you have to add the year of manufacture as an integral variable. Where Mona can tow a 1990 with a 4 cyl Outback, I sure wouldn't look at doing that with the 2011 16' deluxe models!
Talk to the service people at both Scamp and Casita about weights. I did and I was totally enlightened by my discussions. Scamp is cheaper quality and use lighter AC, lighter fiberglass, etc. Casita uses higher quality and it's heavier stuff. Casita will be the first to tout "trailer quality", and Scamp will be the first to tout "trailer lightness". Educate yourself carefully in order that you are not disappointed in what you buy...

[honda03842]

"Scamp is cheaper quality and use lighter AC, lighter fiberglass, etc. Casita uses higher quality and it's heavier stuff. Casita will be the first to tout "trailer quality", and Scamp will be the first to tout "trailer lightness". Educate yourself carefully in order that you are not disappointed in what you buy..."

BBuehler,

I've had a Casita 16 and a Scamp 16, each for about a year. I have worked on both of them and modified both of them significantly for our 7-11 month trips.

Other than weight I can not see much to differentiate the two, Scamps from Casitas, actually the similarities are some times annoying, both rigs have dramatic room for improvement.

My major issue with the Casita was interior height and trailer weight, the Casita was too short inside at 5'10" and weighed significantly more than the Scamp. If it weren't for the Casita's 5'10" interior height I would probably own one and live with the weight difference.

In reality I never could figure out where the Casita's extra weight was as well it's heavy nose weight makes it more difficult for small vehicles to tow.

[Mike Magee]

Casita's FG extends to a full underside, which Scamp does not have. That might account for some weight. Just speculating.

[honda03842]

Mike, that's certainly possible and I suspect part of the weight difference.

Before I owned our 21 year old Scamp I thought that might be a Casita advantage though it appears trailer's wooden floors don't fail from below but from the top due to window or other opening leaks.

I find both trailers well made particularly compared to a stick trailer I previously owned.

[DavArl]

Thanks to everyone for the info. It's beginning to look to me that the Lil Snoozy may have addressed the short comings of the Scamp and Casita.

1. Internal height 6'4"
2. Queen bed plus small bed
3. Dry weight under 1850# with all the options I want

Just concerned about the price $18007 with my options and the fact they are very new and small.

[melissab]

Another Option which also has the Queen bed plus single or bunks, Interior height of 6'4" and is light at only 15 ft is the Parkliner and you can get every option they offer including dual batteries and dual propane tanks for $17,500 out the door and an overall weight without your stuff or water in the tanks of 2275 lbs. Tongue weight of 200lbs with empty tanks. You could lower that even more by switching to the new Fiberglass Tanks. They are in North Carolina.

Just another option.

[DavArl]

Originally Posted by melissab

Another Option which also has the Queen bed plus single or bunks, Interior height of 6'4" and is light at only 15 ft is the Parkliner and you can get every option they offer including dual batteries and dual propane tanks for $17,500 out the door and an overall weight without your stuff or water in the tanks of 2275 lbs. Tongue weight of 200lbs with empty tanks. You could lower that even more by switching to the new Fiberglass Tanks. They are in North Carolina.

Just another option.

Thanks Melissa.

I am very interested in them too being they are 15' long versus Lil Snoozy at 17' long. I actually talked to Christopher at ParkLiner. Extremely helpful. He actually weighed one of his with the options I wanted and it came in at 2200# versus 1850# for LilSnoozy. My Forester max tow rating is 2400#. The 2200# is so close to 2400# I am a bit nervous about ParkLiner. If it weren't for the Forester I'd probably opt for the ParkLiner over the Lil Snoozy. Still mulling over my choices!

[Denece]

FWIW I drive a 4cyl Tacoma. Recently I needed to move a bunch of stuff cross country. The truck was not overloaded, but was close to payload capacity. It was really slow going through the mountains and a lot of down-shifting.
After this experience, my personal decision was to go light and go faster.
YMMV

[john warren]

first,,,never haul water, you can fill up when you get where your going.
same with anything heavy like canned goods.
as to towing, i like to stay around half my vehicles capacity, to leave room for error. but that being said it should tow it.

[SilverGhost]

Well, from all this discussion I think you are all going yell at me for my 2 cents.

I have a 2005 VW Golf TDI that I tow my EggCamper with. I have also moved a couple times and weighed the Uhaul at 2800lbs (no brakes). I also have a 17' boat I launch with this car. What I can say is this; it depends on what you expect from the tow vehicle.

My father spent a great many years in several countries driving truck. I learned that anything worth doing is worth doing right. That's why my car has trailer brake controller, rear coil spring air bags, full frame mount hitch, extra oil cooling and filtering, larger capacity clutch. Also my engine power is about the same as my dad's 72 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup (Euro versions come from 75HP to 170HP - mine has been changed to about 140HP and ~280lb/ft)

I watch people around me and plan stops and turns much further in advance (though my wife says other wise ). I average 28 to 35 MPG with this setup depending on terrain and weather and as I learn what speed it likes.

I think the trade off here is MPG for speed and acceleration. If you can get used to driving 60 or under then you'll have no problem with a small SUV/car. BTW state speed law in several states for towing is lower (IE: CA=55 MPH). If you want to be the first up the mountain then you would be better off with a bigger SUV/pickup.

Jason

[SilverGhost]

As far European tow ratings, the ratings are more dependent on owner knowing the conditions under which they operate. In USA they are more likely to take lowest, safest factor in determining a rating.

My understanding of European rating system is this - tow rating is the maximum weight a vehicle can get moving and continue forward progress at posted limits, on stated inclines. Example: my car rating varies a couple thousand pounds based on engine out put, drive train (FWD vs AWD) and rated incline from 0 to 12%. The maximum my car style can tow is 3568lbs on flat ground with 4motion and largest diesel engine option.

Also any trailer over, I think, 1000lbs requires trailer brakes by law. As a note, state of California also requires trailers over a certain weight to have brakes (1000 or 2000lbs?). Other states have variations requiring brakes.

Jason

[jen b]

Jason, I might want to pick your brain about your hitch at some point. I have been thinking my next car will be the subaru outback, but I've changed course and have my eye on the Jetta TDI sportwagen. It seems like the only ready-made hitch for that car is a class I, and I'm curious to know about your hitch setup. I guess the class I is probably adequate but I sort of like the sturdiness of the class II hitch I have on my current subaru forester.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by jen b

Jason, I might want to pick your brain about your hitch at some point. I have been thinking my next car will be the subaru outback, but I've changed course and have my eye on the Jetta TDI sportwagen. It seems like the only ready-made hitch for that car is a class I, and I'm curious to know about your hitch setup. I guess the class I is probably adequate but I sort of like the sturdiness of the class II hitch I have on my current subaru forester.

Actually Jen the class I would not be adequate and you will have no problem getting a "ready made" Class II or III for the Outback along with the seven pin plug - they are made by most if not all major hitch manufactures. Its just that Subaru themselves did not offer hitches themselves - they actually only stated offering the Class I from the factory/showroom in the past year or so - up until then you had to get every hitch from another company. So the class II on the Forester you have now was not likely made by Subaru either. It is very possible that the class I they are now offering isn't actually made by them either. Despite what some may here say it really is not an uncommon situation with auto manufactures.

[Roger C H]

I tow a Trilium 1300 with a 2000 Subaru Outback with a 2.5L 4 cyl rated for 2000 lbs.
In fact we just returned from a 42 day, 5747 mile trip through 5 states.
I think a sway bar would just be added weight. Our Trillium tracks like it is part of the car. We have no problem with cross winds, etc.We average about 22mpg. Our Trill was weighed by Fred Simpson at Quartzsite last year and it came in at 1840 lbs.
The only lack we notice is up steep grades. We towed up Palomar mountain South Grade, and on some of the long hills we do have to downshift, (5 spd stick).

Now to the missing factor:
The legal aspects of towing overweight. There are several threads on this blog about what happens to someone who has an accident whilst towing overweight, and if someone is killed in the accident, the overweight vehicle owner will have a real legal problem. Even if someone is not killed, a smart lawyer on the other side will shred your life.