Wanna tow Scamp 16' with Subaru Forester

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Roger C H

We have no problem with cross winds, etc.We average about 22mpg. :

Roger funny you should mention this. My brother called this AM asking about how the drive and weather was on a trip I did in Nov/Dec into Calf and Arizona.

Was just telling him about a day I noted that the gas mileage display was saying I was only getting about between 7 to 10 mpg on a real flat road -was worried there was something wrong with the car in the middle of no where - it wasn't until the semi up ahead of me suddenly went totally sideways on the road and I stopped and got out of the car that I realized just how windy it was and why the poor mileage- normal the gas on the flats its in the 20 and up range. There were no trees on the side of the road to give me an indication of wind and the tow had not given me any indication that it was being blowing around either - the stability in the winds may have to do with the lower wheel base of the tow compared to some others - don't know for sure.

Your legal disclaimer is a good one - wish more people would take note of it.

[Mike Magee]

Jason, I also would like to know if you had a hitch made custom or where you got it.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by DavArl

Just concerned about the price $18007 with my options and the fact they are very new and small.

Nothing you can do about price... except downgrade the options, but I certainly wouldn't worry about the fact they're a new manufacturer. It's FIBERGLASS!!

[Raz]

Originally Posted by jen b

Jason, I might want to pick your brain about your hitch at some point. I have been thinking my next car will be the subaru outback, but I've changed course and have my eye on the Jetta TDI sportwagen. It seems like the only ready-made hitch for that car is a class I, and I'm curious to know about your hitch setup. I guess the class I is probably adequate but I sort of like the sturdiness of the class II hitch I have on my current subaru forester.

The VW looks like it would be a great tow vehicle with all that torque from the diesel engine but what concerned me was the low ground clearance. Less than 6" as I recall. I was afraid the hitch might bottom out or hit the rear hatch. Also VW reliability is not what it use to be. Raz

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by DavArl

Thanks Melissa.

I am very interested in them too being they are 15' long versus Lil Snoozy at 17' long. I actually talked to Christopher at ParkLiner. Extremely helpful. He actually weighed one of his with the options I wanted and it came in at 2200# versus 1850# for LilSnoozy. My Forester max tow rating is 2400#. The 2200# is so close to 2400# I am a bit nervous about ParkLiner. If it weren't for the Forester I'd probably opt for the ParkLiner over the Lil Snoozy. Still mulling over my choices!

I'd verify Lil Snoozy's dry weight, it may be without options. The weight of a trailer depends a lot on who is measuring. You want it with options, you want it empty, you want it with propane and battery, you want it dry, you want it wet. All these "weights" will give you different results. Compare apples to apples and you may end up with what you need.

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

The VW looks like it would be a great tow vehicle with all that torque from the diesel engine but what concerned me was the low ground clearance. Less than 6" as I recall. I was afraid the hitch might bottom out or hit the rear hatch. Also VW reliability is not what it use to be. Raz

Well, first a hitch that will handle the weight would not be mounted under the rear body work. Mine is inside the bumper cover and sticks out through a hole in the lower valance. The Tigaun and Touareg both do the same thing with their OE hitches.

Second there are a lot of people who agree with you on ground clearance. As such they have take the factory lifted models, reverse engineered them, and come up with a simple spacer kit to give the cars a 1" or 2" lift.

The reliability issues were more towards two main issues, IMO. They have to follow European end of life cycle ability to recycle guide lines. That gave us the pealing and cracking plastic interiors. And the more electronic gizmos and options you put on a car the more there is to go wrong. But the drive train and body will go 1/2 million miles or better.

Jason

[SilverGhost]

Originally Posted by jen b

Jason, I might want to pick your brain about your hitch at some point. I have been thinking my next car will be the subaru outback, but I've changed course and have my eye on the Jetta TDI sportwagen. It seems like the only ready-made hitch for that car is a class I, and I'm curious to know about your hitch setup. I guess the class I is probably adequate but I sort of like the sturdiness of the class II hitch I have on my current subaru forester.

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Jason, I also would like to know if you had a hitch made custom or where you got it.

I actually designed and built the hitch myself, with obvious influence by what is available and what other people had made. BUT www.IDPARTS.com does sell Euro hitches and may have one for that car. If not ask him and he'll look into getting one.

Here is my post over on Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community where I documented my first version of the hitch. (click me) I later changed the design to fix a problem I was having. Some day I do want to take it back out and finish it. I has really ugly welds and I have ideas on how to install it AND keep the 5 MPH bumper.

And here is my post showing the Golf and what I tow. (click me)

BTW - I'm at work and the firewall blocks pictures, sooo I can't tell if they are visible to everyone here. I'll check when I get home.

Jason

PS: A big thing most people will forget - DON'T TOW UNTIL THE ENGINE IS BROKEN IN. For the TDI I know that is at least 5k miles, preferably 10k miles. Most owner's manuals I have read over the years say something similar.

[SilverGhost]

I just want to point out I have 110,486 miles as of this morning and have been towing almost since day one. I started out with the Hidden Hitch - obvious problems being it hung to low, dragging on everything, was 1.25" and limited accessory options, and flexed too much in it's own right and by movement of the body. The Euro hitches are ideal but $$$ and were beyond my budget at the time. That leaves me where I am today with a custom built hitch that is still evolving a bit.

Happy FG rv'ing everyone!

Jason

[Mike Magee]

Very interesting, thanks!

[DavArl]

Originally Posted by SilverGhost

Well, from all this discussion I think you are all going yell at me for my 2 cents.

I have a 2005 VW Golf TDI that I tow my EggCamper with. I have also moved a couple times and weighed the Uhaul at 2800lbs (no brakes). I also have a 17' boat I launch with this car. What I can say is this; it depends on what you expect from the tow vehicle.

My father spent a great many years in several countries driving truck. I learned that anything worth doing is worth doing right. That's why my car has trailer brake controller, rear coil spring air bags, full frame mount hitch, extra oil cooling and filtering, larger capacity clutch. Also my engine power is about the same as my dad's 72 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup (Euro versions come from 75HP to 170HP - mine has been changed to about 140HP and ~280lb/ft)

I watch people around me and plan stops and turns much further in advance (though my wife says other wise ). I average 28 to 35 MPG with this setup depending on terrain and weather and as I learn what speed it likes.

I think the trade off here is MPG for speed and acceleration. If you can get used to driving 60 or under then you'll have no problem with a small SUV/car. BTW state speed law in several states for towing is lower (IE: CA=55 MPH). If you want to be the first up the mountain then you would be better off with a bigger SUV/pickup.

Jason

Jason & Everyone,

I have been following all your comments closely. Just haven't posted lately. I find Jason's observations most encouraging when considering towing a 16' with my 2010 Forrester.

My wife and I just visited the big RV show in RoseMont IL yesterday. We also went to the Boat and RV show in Chicago a couple of weeks ago. All the 16' to 19' RVs dry weight were all a minumum of 2200lbs to 3400lbs. Without a doubt the fiberglass seems to be the only viable option for us. My wife and I just don't believe the 13' options will be big enough for us so we're sticking to the 16' option. We're going to see our first fiberglass unit tomorrow in the Chicago suburbs. Rather excited! Hope it doesn't disappoint. It's a 16' Scamp deluxe. We know the deluxe is too heavy for us but it will give us a good idea of the look and feel.

Thanks again for all your comments! It definitely is a great service you provide to us newbies!

[Carol H]

Dave IMHO the Scamp deluxe actually will not give you the feel of what you will end up with - the deluxe has a very different layout to the lighest of the 16' Scamps that you will have to find - basic sidebath model with few heavy options such as AC and microwave etc. As I have indicated prior you really need to take a look at the Real World weights of the trailers that are posted here. In case you are unaware the dry weights that most manufactures list do not include any options - not even the propane tank or battery! Unless you don't want a battery, propane, hot water, bathroom, fridge etc IMHO you haven't a chance of finding a 16' that weighs in at the Foresters towing cap.

Keep in mind that although a lot of people like to say that in Europe the ratings are higher for the Subaru's but what they fail to tell you is the are NOT the same car. Subaru has put very different parts in the back end of the Subaru sold in NA vs Europe.

As you will see based on my posting here that I'm the first one to support towing with a Subaru but as I have also said previously there isn't a chance you would catch me towing a 16' Scamp with a Forester Not a safe situation!

[DavArl]

Carol,

Thanks for the input. I am aware of the layout differences. I'd be considering layout 6 which doesn't have the full size bed the deluxe has etc., but nevering having been in one at all I just want to get a feel. If anyone has a 16' Scamp non deluxe in my area and is willing to let us see it I'd appreciate it.

[Carol H]

TRUST ME if you are looking at a layout 6 you haven't a chance in *** of keeping the tongue weight or the total tow weight anywhere near Subaru's specs - so I sure hope you have enough money left over after you buy the trailer to replace the back end in your Forester. Sorry if that sounds tough but thats the reality.

[honda03842]

We gave a number of tours at the rally we attended this week. There were mostly Casta 17s in attendance.

Virtually every tour some one asked us how big our Scamp was, that it seemed bigger than their Casita 17s. We have become use to this because our half table and the front window give the illusion that we are longer than we are.

Other comments were that the Scamp seems wider. People find the space between the two counters in our Scamp to be wider than a Casita. That is the case because the sink side counter is only 1.5 feet deep and it is a wider space.

Of course women always comment on the large counter area we have with counters on both sides and the 3 burner stove.

I think Scamp could make a model with a little less counter area and a wider bed, possibly that will be in their future.

We regularly measure our tongue weight. The last two measurements were 192 and 200 pounds. I assume that's within the Subaru range.

What is the factory rating for the Forester and Outback for tongue weight?

Our trailer including the tongue weighs 2400 lbs, with inside air, full propane and 1/2 full water tank.

Just a reference point.

[Carol H]

Norm the tow cap on the Forester is 2400 lbs and its important to note it does not have the same size engine as the Outback. Also important to note that you are towing an older sidebath as I am not the front bath model the poster is looking at.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by honda03842

What is the factory rating for the Forester and Outback for tongue weight?

Depends on what you mean by "factory."
:
The Euro rating is 176 pounds (80 kg).
The US rating is 200 pounds.

Interestingly, the Outback 2.5 is rated to tow approx 4,000 pounds in Europe, but the Forester (with its smaller 2.0 gasoline engine) is rated to tow 4,400 pounds just like the 3.6r Outback.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Norm the tow cap on the Forester is 2400 lbs and its important to note it does not have the same size engine as the Outback. Also important to note that you are towing an older sidebath as I am not the front bath model the poster is looking at.

Carol, the current 4 cylinder Outback and Forester do have the same size engine in the US market -- 2.5 liter.

The odd thing is that in Europe, the Forester gets a smaller engine (2.0) but is rated to tow MORE than the 2.5 liter Outback. But here in the US, they give the Forester a bigger engine and downgrade it's tow rating lower than the Outback. Go figure.

[honda03842]

As I started writing my post I got off track.

People were surprised that I towed with the Honda CRv until they realized I was Honda03842.

People were surprised but happy about the mileage I get towing, particularly as the price of gas goes higher. The price increased 10% in 5 days from $3.17 to $3.45.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

Carol, the current 4 cylinder Outback and Forester do have the same size engine in the US market -- 2.5 liter.

The odd thing is that in Europe, the Forester gets a smaller engine (2.0) but is rated to tow MORE than the 2.5 liter Outback. But here in the US, they give the Forester a bigger engine and downgrade it's tow rating lower than the Outback. Go figure.

Jessie as I have and others have indicated in the past and provided links to read on the topic - the US Outback and the Europe Outback are not built the same. So comparing the two is pointless.

[melissab]

Is it possible to modify a US Outback to bring the tow rating up?

Melissa