Watch speed "tables" not bumps - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-13-2015, 09:08 AM   #15
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Name: Charlie
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My LIL Snoozy also has the swing away jack, which works perfectly. No matter if we like it or not we will encounter places where the frame meets the road.
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:36 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by rdickens View Post
Hmmmm. Interesting!
Thanks for sharing the "heads up!" story.




Still .... The next time we hitch up, I will now want to take a close look, and see if we should
maybe try to find/fabricate some sort of a bolt-on/weld-on skid plate that could be mounted
forward of the post to deflect a blow and protect the jack post.

Thanks again for sharing! ��

Ray


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Yep, as noted, that flat plate is a "Foot Pad" not a "Skid Pad", and leaving it on will further reduce your tongue jacks clearance.

But, rather than trying to fabricate a skid plate that will reduce clearance in itself, why not just remove the jack itself, either with one of the retractable jacks or a quick removal mount?
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:53 AM   #17
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Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Hmmmm, Here's a thought: (I "think" the info is correct)

Some 16' Scamps came from the factory with swing away tongue jacks on the left (?) frame rail. Some 16' Scamps have experienced frame cracks/failures on the left frame rail.

Hmmmmmmm........ I've oft thought about that connection.
Bob,
Our swing jack is on the left (driver's side) frame rail and we have not experienced any cracks in this area (after 24 years).

The jack mounting plate is welded to the frame, a strengthening. The triangular piece between the frame members in this area is rather substantial tying the frame side rails together.

As well stresses to the jack are mostly static compared to dynamic hits like the speed bump. The jack itself is only supporting the tongue weight, a static load. We also have a right front jack just before our door way that further adds to the stability of the trailer, not to protect the swing jack but just to remove a little trailer bounce.

As well our A frame has been recently stiffened via the addition of fishtails to Scamp's stiffening 'L' reinforcement, welding the propane bracket in place and the anti-sway bracket, small and large stiffening improvements. The swing jack was not a source of structural failure and I don't see the swing jack as a future source of structural failure.

At the very minimum the jack is as out of the way as it can be,would never result in a speed bump issue and definitely does not interfere with opening of any rear tow vehicle doors.

We do not use the wheel provided or a foot pad, we carry a small wooden block in the rear of the tow vehicle for this function.

To me it looks like a very good solution. Now if it were only electric.
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:46 AM   #18
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Name: Darral
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This has been a most enlightening post. I've been driving for nearly 40 yrs and I have never encountered a "speed table". I had to google it to see what it was.

Thanks for this post.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:02 PM   #19
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Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Hmmmm, Here's a thought: (I "think" the info is correct)


Some 16' Scamps came from the factory with swing away tongue jacks on the left (?) frame rail.
Some 16' Scamps have experienced frame cracks/failures on the left frame rail.


Hmmmmmmm........ I've oft thought about that connection.
My guess the cracking on the left side is caused by the built in weakness in the right side from the drop frame at the door.
The flexing of the right causes cracking in the stiffer left side.
There is often cracking on the ends of the pass under tubes in front of the door.
While there are two 3" X 1 1/2" square tubes on each side the left are welded one on top of the other giving a box 6" high while the left is the same tow boxes laid flat and have a height of 1 1/2".
The 1 1/2" vertical section is very much more flexible than the 6" on the left.
The stress seems to be concentrated at the point where the frame kicks in to form the VEE snout.
I doubt that the placement of the tilt jack makes any significant difference compared to the above.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:21 PM   #20
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Trailer: '88 Scamp 16, layout 4
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My guess the cracking on the left side is caused by the built in weakness in the right side from the drop frame at the door. The flexing of the right causes cracking in the stiffer left side.
That is my theory, based on observations of exactly one Scamp 16 (mine). Glad the OP found a real Welder/Fabricator that was not scared to fix his rig.

As I just happen to have a story (or two) for most any occasion, without many occasions to tell them I will relate a couple. For several years I attended night Welding classes at the VoTec School. I turned out literally tons of projects during that time. A couple of items were a very custom hitch for a 4X4 pickup and complete rear bumper and hitch for another (I still have both).

Upon completing the hitch another student opined "the truck won't pull what the hitch will". I said "that's OK, I did not set out to build the weak link". Another time upon completing the bumper and hitch on the other truck we were all standing around admiring my work with me bragging a little. I quickly apologized for bragging and another guy said "don't apologize for recognizing good work, even if you did it yourself".
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:22 PM   #21
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Stress seems to concentrate at the sharp edges of the reinforcements, the reason for adding the fish tails.

People have had structural failures at both edges of Scamp's frame reinforcements near where the frame goes under the trailer.

Flex issues are much larger on rough roads then parked. I believe the side jack produces no problems.

The jack I added at the front of the trailer is close to the door opening and reduces trailer motion when parked. It wasn't added to reduce stress but to reduce motion.

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Old 10-13-2015, 01:30 PM   #22
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Bob,
Our swing jack is on the left (driver's side) frame rail and we have not experienced any cracks in this area (after 24 years).

c.
I was referring to the frame cracks and breaks that have occurred on 16' Scamps right near the front of the trailer, not at the jack attachment point itself.
Didn't you have one like that recently? If my memory is incorrect, please let me know.

But, as I said, it was just a thought as to a possible contributing cause, especially when there are two full size adults in the front bed and additional stabilizers are not used in the front.
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:01 PM   #23
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I doubt that the stress on the side mount is that high. The tongue weight might be 300 lbs and assume with two adults might go as high as 450. this should be relatively small loading compared to the dynamic loads while traveling.
Again stress concentrations and the differential bending moments are more likely to be the culprits here.
Norm is correct that the squared off reinforcements add to the problem along with the fact that there is no beam carrying the force spreading and contracting the frame at the bends. He is correct in that a tapered fishplate over the bends as reinforcement would be preferred.
In my modification I added the beam between the bends and the tapered reinforcements as well.I also reinforced the pass under tubes and added a cross beam in front of the door between the frame members to add stiffness and also make the aft door threshold to the bath/shower.
I did install the Ultimate jack on the Bulldog hitch I also installed.
I added a fair amount of weight, but I think that the reinforced frame will hold up pretty well in practice. I also bonded the floor and internal walls to the shell to make it a stiffer unit overall. The cabinets are also bonded to the shell along with the framing for the twin beds. I feel that this will produce a stiff unit. There are also no rivets, but rather screws with washers into the plywood/oak framing along with the epoxy bonding and glass.
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Yep, as noted, that flat plate is a "Foot Pad" not a "Skid Pad", and leaving it on will further reduce your tongue jacks clearance.

But, rather than trying to fabricate a skid plate that will reduce clearance in itself, why not just remove the jack itself, either with one of the retractable jacks or a quick removal mount?
I have a skid plate just at the shell on the frame. It primarily protects the plumbing. The foot plate on the jack has adequate clearance when left installed since Scamp supplies one with the bolt plate mounted lower which allows it to retract closer to the frame than the one supplied for the 16.
The skid plate extends only as far as necessary to do its job and actually does not decrease clearance due to angle of approach consideration, it is located even with the sheet metal stone guard which was factory installed.
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:26 PM   #25
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Do you have more pictures of the skidplate? I still need to design and build one.


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Old 10-13-2015, 05:31 PM   #26
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'A' Frame Breaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
I was referring to the frame cracks and breaks that have occurred on 16' Scamps right near the front of the trailer, not at the jack attachment point itself. Didn't you have one like that recently? If my memory is incorrect, please let me know.

But, as I said, it was just a thought as to a possible contributing cause, especially when there are two full size adults in the front bed and additional stabilizers are not used in the front.
Bob,

We did have breaks at the point where Scamp bends the frame members to form the 'A', well under the trailer. Scamp's process of bending the frame kinks the beams and unfortunately they do not reinforce this now weak spot.

When I reported this failure a couple of people mentioned a failure forward on the 'A' frame just before Scamp's reinforcement. Where these people had failures I reinforced the beam with fish tails to reduce concentrated stress created by Scamp's reinforcement. Minimally if fish tails are not added to Scamp's reinforcement, a weld bead should be added along the unwelded leading and trailing edges of Scamp's reinforcement..

We do not have a front bed.

RedBarron55,

The tongue weight for our Scamp 16 is about 200 lbs. Since we've began RVing I've lost 60 pounds and reaching for 180lbs.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:12 PM   #27
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Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
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Norm,
I meant to indicate the weight on the jack with two adults in the front and not while towing.
I am shooting for that 200 lbs. when ready to tow. The rated hitch weight is 206 lbs.
I have been doing some research on this weight and I think it is rated with full fuel and two passengers (of some standard weight) in the rear seats. Also I think that there is some luggage included in the back of the wagon as well. I found reference on the Volvo site as the the reduction in hitch weight as payload is added ending with the ~ 200 lbs for the V70 with full load.
I believe that the rating is determined with the loading at the rear axle load rating and the front same with the gross within limits. More research is necessary.
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:19 AM   #28
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Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
Do you have more pictures of the skidplate? I still need to design and build one.


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Mine was installed on a whim when the trailer was new. It is made from a simple piece of black iron pipe and a scrap of flat stock. It has proven useful on several occasions (mostly gas station driveways).
I have been meaning to build a better and prettier one but find that I am overcome with sloth at those times when I am giving such a notion consideration.
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