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10-16-2015, 09:47 AM
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#61
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borrego Dave
His tug is a Ford Freestyle, not a VW. I can only believe that he was within his specs.
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Only way that could be within that vechiles specs is if he happens to own one of those very rare and not yet actually weighed & recorded 16' Scamps that weighs less than 2000lbs loaded
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10-16-2015, 10:05 AM
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#62
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Senior Member
Name: Bat Dude
Trailer: Escape
Michigan
Posts: 347
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Hi Timber,
Back when I was a mere pup and was growing up on the European road racing circuits I thought I should learn to weld.
The very short lived class taught me just enough to burn the poop out of myself
Re the other comment from CarolyH (who replied to Borrego Dave- like Anza B?) one reason we chose the Scamp was low weight. The 2006 Ford freestyle we have has an odd transmission, called a constant velocity type thing, so not a standard auto.
I prefer a crash box and stick, but no choice as the vehicle came from my father-in-law once we returned from 26 years in Central America.
In any case the max tow weight with that transmission is rated at 2,000 lbs ± 100 and tongue wt. up to 250 lbs.
So the empty 16' Scamp with no fancy wood (read heavy) cabinets was just right for us.
May need to look a removal of the foot to increase a bit of clearance.
Cheers all,
__________________
Conservation biologist specializing in bats. Now stepping aside from paid $ bat work and just Escaping, painting and mentoring grad students
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10-16-2015, 10:27 AM
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#63
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BatDude
In any case the max tow weight with that transmission is rated at 2,000 lbs ± 100 and tongue wt. up to 250 lbs.
So the empty 16' Scamp with no fancy wood (read heavy) cabinets was just right for us.
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Thanks for the confirmation as to what your tug is spec'd to tow.
Have you put your scamp on the scales when loaded for camping?
FYI my older very lightly loaded 16' Scamp side bath (historically the lightest of the Scamp 16' ) with no fancy wood, no AC, no water in the tanks, 1 propane tank, has never weighed when ready to camp at under 2500lbs (including tongue weight). Actually over that.
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10-16-2015, 10:54 AM
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#64
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Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
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I agree with Carol about probable weight.
Manufacturers empty weights, more often than not, range from slightly under actual to a lot (as much as 500 lbs) under actual delivered weights.
Ya gotta get an honest loaded, ready-to-camp weight, not only to prevent overloading your vehicle but, in the event of an accident, to be clear of any unwanted liability or insurance issues should you be found to be towing in excess of the manufacturers towing specifications.
And, if you travel in beautiful Western Canada, I have seen posts that the constabulary will stop and weigh trailers that seem a bit heavy for the TV, and that can become a major stopping point in your travels.
We get a number of new members on here that want to tow a 16'er with a vehicle having a 2000 lb. limit and the general answer is "Don't". Sadly, some don't like the advice and go elsewhere, to shop for an opinion they agree with.....
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10-16-2015, 12:51 PM
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#65
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller
I agree with Carol about probable weight.
And, if you travel in beautiful Western Canada, I have seen posts that the constabulary will stop and weigh trailers that seem a bit heavy for the TV, and that can become a major stopping point in your travels.
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Just curious, has anyone on this website ever been stopped and had their trailer weighed?
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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10-16-2015, 01:01 PM
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#66
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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The Childhood 'NO"
I recall from my childhood often hearing what I can't or shouldn't be doing and not a lot of advice on what I might try. particularly out of the box 'tries'. As I've gotten older, really old now, I still hear what can't be done and won't work.
This came to me because the OP had his hitch welded in and that seemed like something that is probably wise in any vehicle and rarely mentioned on the site. Bolts do loosen. The welding shop the OP went to suggested bolting and welding, to me it sounds like a good idea.
How many of you have welded your hitch in place?
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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10-16-2015, 01:27 PM
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#67
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Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
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For those wanting both a belt and suspenders, but still want to be able to take their pants off on occasion, having the bolt heads tack welded in place is an alternative that will do both. I have heard of mounting bolts coming loose, and I torque mine before long trips or at least twice a year.
You may not want that hitch forever on there forever (I had to take the one off the Honda CRV) and cutting one off can be risky to the existing frame members.
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10-16-2015, 01:53 PM
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#68
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842
Just curious, has anyone on this website ever been stopped and had their trailer weighed?
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YUP I have!!!! but not with my trailer - I have been stopped with a truck camper. and towing a boat.
Last summer I was waved through one such check while pulling the Scamp with my truck, did note they had a couple of fairly large sticky trailers pull in though, along with a couple of truck camper and boat combos.
They are waving in anyone they think looks questionable as to weight ratings.
Both my brothers have also been stopped and weighed as well. One while pulling a boat with a truck camper on his truck, the other while only pulling a large boat.
I know when the topic of road side checks in BC has come up in the past I have not been the only member here who has reported seeing the same or having been pulled over in one.
They use portable scales to check the axle weights. They may also check the Combined rating? if the party is towing something. They check lights, brakes, tires, insurance etc as well.
They are a hit and miss thing. Over the past 5 years I have only actually seen them twice. Common to a couple of spots on Vancouver Island as well as a couple of points in the interior of the province were there is a high volume of recreational vehicle traffic.
Edit to add from the branch of Commercial Vehicle Safety of the Government of BC's Website - "Recreational Vehicle towing in BC." It reads in part:
"Check your owner’s manual to find your vehicle’s towing capability. If you tow a load that is too heavy for your vehicle, you create a potential safety risk for yourself and others on the road. Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in British Columbia prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The Province is focusing on vehicles that are obviously overweight and pose a risk to the safety of other motorists. "
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10-16-2015, 01:57 PM
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#69
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller
You may not want that hitch forever on there forever (I had to take the one off the Honda CRV) and cutting one off can be risky to the existing frame members.
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Have to agree I would never want a hitch welded to the tug. I had to have a 2 year old hitched made by a very popular hitch manufacture taken off my last tug due to excessive rusting of the hitch to the point I did not trust its integrity. The manufacture agreed and replaced it for free!
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10-16-2015, 02:27 PM
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#70
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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I deal with the rust issue by painting my hitch every year with rustoleum. At the same time I check everything for tightness.
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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10-16-2015, 02:38 PM
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#71
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842
I deal with the rust issue by painting my hitch every year with rustoleum. At the same time I check everything for tightness.
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Yup I tend to do that as well but in the case of the hitch I removed there was something clearly not right about it - possible paint issue at the factory.
Level & extent of rust appearing on it was not normal.
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10-16-2015, 03:15 PM
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#72
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Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
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Carol's hitch situation sound like the manufacturer skimped a lot on the coatings used.
The now 13 y.o. GM factory hitch on my Blazer has a little tiny speck of rust where the safety chain is attached, otherwise the coating is like new, ditto on the GM hitch on my then 10 y.o. Sonoma.
A weld is an oxidation process and it gives it a great place where rust will start. Even the earlier mentioned tack welding of the bolts will provide a small place for rust to start. I would go down to bare metal, cover with several coats of rust converter (Rust Mort?) apply a known quality undercoating, and done is done.
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10-16-2015, 03:35 PM
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#73
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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Actually welding is the process of joining two pieces of metal while preventing oxidation either with shielding gas or flux. Steel will just burn in the presence of oxygen. No shielding poor to nonexistent weld.
Automotive engineers used to consider welds low reliability joining where they trusted bolted connections more.
Proper torque and design produces a good system.
Welds can be good too, but only when done properly.
As for coating a good prep and epoxy powder coat will last a long time.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Fiberglass RV mobile app
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10-16-2015, 05:44 PM
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#74
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller
Carol's hitch situation sound like the manufacturer skimped a lot on the coatings used.
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Yup that was defiantly the case. Which why the manufacture agreed to replace it and paid for the labour to do it.
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10-16-2015, 08:29 PM
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#75
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55
Actually welding is the process of joining two pieces of metal while preventing oxidation either with shielding gas or flux. Steel will just burn in the presence of oxygen. No shielding poor to nonexistent weld.
Automotive engineers used to consider welds low reliability joining where they trusted bolted connections more.
Proper torque and design produces a good system.
Welds can be good too, but only when done properly.
As for coating a good prep and epoxy powder coat will last a long time.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Fiberglass RV mobile app
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Thanks!
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10-16-2015, 09:16 PM
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#76
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Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
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Oh Well, I guess all that oxy-acetylene welding I have done is about to fail because of all that oxygen we used and we didn't shield the bead from inert oxygen along the way. And I believe that the flame itself was also a form of the reduction/oxidation process aka redox.
But I'm OK just knowing that a surface will have to be protected from future rust damage after welding.
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10-17-2015, 06:08 AM
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#77
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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Actually the weld WAS shielded by the CO2 from the Oxy-Acetylene flame. The shielding gas is the product of combustion.
If you remember if you adjusted the flame oxidizing then the excess carbon was burned out of the steel and the weld was hotter, but perhaps not as pretty.
The combustion gases from a neutral flame is what shields the weld and makes pretty welding possible. Deeper in the puddle the Purer the metal. Try electric welding without shielding from flux or gas.
There is no inert oxygen I know of. Being a certified aircraft welder with an A&P license with Inspection Authorization I know a small amount about welding.
frame
It is but this is a place where these parts should be joined by bolting. I would guess that very few hitches are welded since it would be difficult to make sure that it met design specs where the strength of a bolted unit can be determined closely.
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10-17-2015, 01:46 PM
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#78
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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Also I meant to add you can't be sure about the alloy of today's cars and frames since HSLA steels or other fancy stuff could be used.
The HAZ or heat affected zone and cracking just outside of the weld is a real possibility. Welding on the new high strength steel frames is not allowed.
Most or for that matter all modern cars and hitches bolt on for that reason.
There maybe some that weld on, but there can't be many.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Fiberglass RV mobile app
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10-17-2015, 01:57 PM
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#79
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Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
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That may well be why the first two shops turned down the job....
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