Weight allocation in Casita for towing. - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-09-2018, 10:05 PM   #1
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Name: William
Trailer: Casita SD17
New Jersey
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Weight allocation in Casita for towing.

I took off my spare tire when I was skirting the Casita, and had some trouble putting it back on, so I put it in the back of my pickup truck. Then I put a bunch of other stuff in to my truck (Nissan Frontier V6 crew-cab w/tow package). My stuff isn't really heavy, but I guess it added up to lower the back of the truck about .5 inches. The truck can tow 5k lbs with a regular hitch (which i have), and 6.5k lbs with a WD hitch.

My Casita has some stuff in it, but I have tried to keep it light. Without the spare on the back it will be lighter than normal. I plan to empty my gray/black tanks, and drain my freshwater tank, before I tow it. When I get where I am going, I wont be able dump my gray/black tanks, so I am avoiding using them when traveling. I have a porta-potti and 3 gal water jug inside the Casita, to use as my bathroom system. I don't know how to drain the hot water heater, but I will need to figure that out.

I was thinking by moving most stuff from inside the Casita in to my truck, I would make towing the Casita easier. But now I am wondering if it is possible to overload the truck and make it not good for towing. The heaviest things in my truck are some steel tools for working on the Casita (wrenches, etc) and 5 gal of gasoline. Plus I have a cap on the back, and a Yakima box on top of that.

I think the Casita puts 300lbs on the hitch, which will definitely lower the back of the truck a bit. I guess I will find out how much, when I hook it up to leave.

The Yakima box weighs about 60 lbs, and I think the Leer cap on the back might weigh 250lbs.

I could move the Casita's spare tire, and some tools, in to the Casita, near the front. That would take some weight out of the truck, and make the Casita heavier.

My concerns are my headlights shining in people's eyes, and the Casita fish-tailing (I will be using a Curtis sway bar).

Maybe I will post a picture once I get it hitched up. I guess people use "air bags" to level their truck out, but I don't have those.

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Old 02-09-2018, 10:24 PM   #2
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I suggest you buy a Sherline tongue weight scale and read the Sherline Towing Guide.

https://sherline.com/product/sherlin...-weight-scale/
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:59 AM   #3
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It would be nice to adjust your headlights when you are geared up to go. Then, if they are a bit low when you're not loaded, it won't really matter. I carry the tool required to adjust mine in the door pocket, but I leave them set correctly for when I'm hooked up.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:44 AM   #4
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It's generally better to load the trailer than the pickup bed. The latter puts all the weight over your rear axle which, when combined with the trailer's tongue weight, could overload it. The spare tire in particular is better off in its usual place on the back, where it offsets some of your Casita's typically heavy tongue weight. Remaining cargo should be distributed in the Casita's cargo holds to get a tongue weight of 375-400 pounds. Some in the pickup bed is okay, but don't overdo it.

Bottom line... Your drivetrain doesn't care where the weight is- a pound is a pound- but your suspension, brakes, steering, and tires do. Each axle has a maximum weight rating. The tow vehicle's rear axle is usually the one to watch, and headlights aimed at the sky is a clue you might be overloaded. Air bags level the body, but they do not increase the axle rating.

Since you probably don't have a way to measure tongue weight on the fly, make changes to weight distribution gradually, and pay attention to any differences in how the rig handles.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:46 AM   #5
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Headlights shining in oncoming drivers's eyes is a valid but relatively small concern.
Loss of steering control is a valid and huge concern.

Other than that, I can't offer too much advice beyond getting axle, tongue , and wheel weights with different loading configurations, and measuring the change in vehicle and trailer heights at all four corners as it seems you have done. Of course if you do experience a lack of steering control at some time then you know you have a problem, but it might be too late to fix it.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:19 AM   #6
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Be careful loading as you may have exceeded the the truck CCC. Look in the driver door jamb for a sticker that has a picture of a tire and see the maximum weight your vehicle is intended to carry. You will be very surprised how little it is. I would wager 1200lbs. That is the MAX you put IN the truck. This includes YOU, Spouse, the clothes you are wearing, napkins in the glove box, drink in the cupholder, fiberglass shell, bed liner, tool box, hitch, stinger, ball, chains, wires, hitch weight, etc... You get the idea - EVERYTHING! Add this up really quick -- You clothed 200lbs, spouse clothed 150lbs, hitch 50lbs, stinger/ball/chains 40lbs, fiberglass shell 150lbs, bedliner 20lbs, tools and box 40lbs, odds and ends inside the truck (including napkins and drinks) 20lbs, tongue weight of trailer 400lbs.... Now you get the idea - you are probably overweight inside the truck and will need to adjust some of the load between the two for proper tongue weight (to avoid sway) and still maintain towing capacity (which is higher than your truck's CCC). This is the main reason I went with the 2015 F150 which has 2012lbs of CCC for my needs - I added everything I was doing up and where I wanted to put it and it made sense to have a safety margin of at least 400lbs.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:12 AM   #7
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We have a 2013 17 ft Casita SD . The tongue weight for my trailer when we left the Casita factory was approx 380 lbs and loaded for travel is approx 430 lbs . If you look at " Trailer Weights in the Real World " , the average tongue weight of a 17 ft Casita is 427 lbs . The chances that your Casita has a tongue weight of 300 lbs is slim and none . ( Casita lists the "DRY" tongue weight at 365 lbs )
We tow with a full size 1/2 ton truck with a FG topper . We are at or slightly over our vehicles payload limit . As others have said 1200 lbs of payload sounds like a lot right up to the time you start adding everything up .
Bsedwebt summed it up pretty well
Whether you overload your vehicle or your trailer you are still overloaded! My suggestion is pack really light and then head to the closest scale .
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:47 AM   #8
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Name: William
Trailer: Casita SD17
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I got the spare wheel on to the back of the Casita, is there some trick to knowing how tight to tighten the screw? It has some weird plastic disk (and washer), that I afraid of breaking. I tightened the nut until the wheel was "snug", but I could have kept on tightening it until the plastic disk broke.

I am able to slide the wheel a little to the left and right, I think because the bolt that keeps the wheel on is so long. I don't think it is going to falloff, but I don't really know. Maybe I should leave the cover off and check it as I travel.

Removing the spare wheel from the back helped with the truck rear sagging.

The auto store said they did not have a tool to adjust the headlights on a 2014 Nissan Frontier. Maybe I wont need to, with less sagging.

We are supposed to have rain today, that might help wash away the ice.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:36 AM   #9
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If you don’t have a weight distribution hitch you might look into one also Timbren makes a suspension helper for pickups that may help.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
It's generally better for your truck to have weight in the trailer than in the pickup bed. The latter puts all the weight over your rear axle which, when combined with the trailer's tongue weight, could overload it.
Jon nailed it. On many pick up trucks, you run out of payload capacity (what is in your truck) first. Most of the weight of the trailer is carried by the trailer's axle, only 10% to 15% is transferred to your truck, via hitch weight. Casitas are kind of tongue weight heavy, removing the spare from the rear probably just increases the tongue weight. On the Casita we owned, the bathroom, the black and gray water tanks, the refrigerator, the kitchen, the furnace, propane tanks, all are ahead of the axle. Lots of heavy stuff there. The battery, fresh tank, and spare tire are the heavy items behind the axle.

+100 Your Casita tongue weight is higher than you think.


Doing the payload game, you start with the tag on your driver's side door jam. From this amount, you subtract all dealer installed options as well as stuff you added. Then there is the weight of driver, passenger, and gear in the truck. Then you have the weight of the hitch itself plus tongue weight. Payload disappears quickly! Bedliner? Camper top, roof top carrier? All those come out of your payload. I would not be putting the trailer's spare tire in the bed of the truck. Attached to the rear of your trailer, your tongue weight may actually GO DOWN when you attach the spare. Payload on your truck is reduced by the weight of the spare of course.

Tow ratings are typically exaggerated. My truck has a tow rating of 9,800 pounds but I go over payload capacity at about 5,500 pounds. How is this possible? Tow rating is good for a farm trailer, like a hay wagon or similar, that has very little tongue weight.

Assuming your truck is four wheel drive, depending on options, you could have a payload of UNDER 1,000 pounds. Check the door tag, hopefully yours is better than that!


Creative writing Grand Prize Winner! (from Continental Nissan blog): "While it depends on which model and configuration you choose, your 2017 Frontier will offer a maximum payload capacity between 936 lbs to 1,496 lbs. This impressive capability....."

Source: Continental Nissan blog: http://www.continentalnissan.com/blo...-frontier-tow/

936 pounds is anything but impressive! Put a couple of passengers in your truck, a camper top, and some stuff in back, and you are already at the payload rating. The more options on your truck, the lower your payload. My Ford Lariat (pretty loaded up with options) loses 1/3 of the payload rating that a stripped down F150 enjoys.....
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:55 PM   #11
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Casita 17 ft DLX SD & 21 ft SOB
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
Jon nailed it. On many pick up trucks, you run out of payload capacity (what is in your truck) first. Most of the weight of the trailer is carried by the trailer's axle, only 10% to 15% is transferred to your truck, via hitch weight. Casitas are kind of tongue weight heavy, removing the spare from the rear probably just increases the tongue weight. On the Casita we owned, the bathroom, the black and gray water tanks, the refrigerator, the kitchen, the furnace, propane tanks, all are ahead of the axle. Lots of heavy stuff there. The battery, fresh tank, and spare tire are the heavy items behind the axle.

+100 Your Casita tongue weight is higher than you think.


Doing the payload game, you start with the tag on your driver's side door jam. From this amount, you subtract all dealer installed options as well as stuff you added. Then there is the weight of driver, passenger, and gear in the truck. Then you have the weight of the hitch itself plus tongue weight. Payload disappears quickly! Bedliner? Camper top, roof top carrier? All those come out of your payload. I would not be putting the trailer's spare tire in the bed of the truck. Attached to the rear of your trailer, your tongue weight may actually GO DOWN when you attach the spare. Payload on your truck is reduced by the weight of the spare of course.

Tow ratings are typically exaggerated. My truck has a tow rating of 9,800 pounds but I go over payload capacity at about 5,500 pounds. How is this possible? Tow rating is good for a farm trailer, like a hay wagon or similar, that has very little tongue weight.

Assuming your truck is four wheel drive, depending on options, you could have a payload of UNDER 1,000 pounds. Check the door tag, hopefully yours is better than that!


Creative writing Grand Prize Winner! (from Nissan brochure): "While it depends on which model and configuration you choose, your 2017 Frontier will offer a maximum payload capacity between 936 lbs to 1,496 lbs. This impressive capability"

936 pounds is anything but impressive! Put a couple of passengers in your truck, a camper top, and some stuff in back, and you are already at the payload rating. The more options on your truck, the lower your payload. My Ford Lariat (pretty loaded up with options) loses 1/3 of the payload rating that a stripped down F150 enjoys.....
If I remember correctly you are not allowed to quote Nissan's owners manual or advertising literature on this forum.
I quoted from their owners manual one time ( Word for Word ) and was severely chastised and reprimanded. Evidently Nissan's published literature is not to be believed when it contradicts one's personnal opinion ?
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
If I remember correctly you are not allowed to quote Nissan's owners manual or advertising literature on this forum.
I quoted from their owners manual one time ( Word for Word ) and was severely chastised and reprimanded. Evidently Nissan's published literature is not to be believed when it contradicts one's personnal opinion ?
man, the snark is strong in you.

more likely, the owners manual is COPYRIGHTED.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #13
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Casita 17 ft DLX SD & 21 ft SOB
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
man, the snark is strong in you.

more likely, the owners manual is COPYRIGHTED.
YES ; being snarky is one of my better qualities .
Copyright infringement was definitely the reason for their objections to my quoting the owners manual and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy really exist !!
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
Jon nailed it. On many pick up trucks, you run out of payload capacity (what is in your truck) first. Most of the weight of the trailer is carried by the trailer's axle, only 10% to 15% is transferred to your truck, via hitch weight. Casitas are kind of tongue weight heavy, removing the spare from the rear probably just increases the tongue weight. On the Casita we owned, the bathroom, the black and gray water tanks, the refrigerator, the kitchen, the furnace, propane tanks, all are ahead of the axle. Lots of heavy stuff there. The battery, fresh tank, and spare tire are the heavy items behind the axle.

+100 Your Casita tongue weight is higher than you think.


Doing the payload game, you start with the tag on your driver's side door jam. From this amount, you subtract all dealer installed options as well as stuff you added. Then there is the weight of driver, passenger, and gear in the truck. Then you have the weight of the hitch itself plus tongue weight. Payload disappears quickly! Bedliner? Camper top, roof top carrier? All those come out of your payload. I would not be putting the trailer's spare tire in the bed of the truck. Attached to the rear of your trailer, your tongue weight may actually GO DOWN when you attach the spare. Payload on your truck is reduced by the weight of the spare of course.

Tow ratings are typically exaggerated. My truck has a tow rating of 9,800 pounds but I go over payload capacity at about 5,500 pounds. How is this possible? Tow rating is good for a farm trailer, like a hay wagon or similar, that has very little tongue weight.

Assuming your truck is four wheel drive, depending on options, you could have a payload of UNDER 1,000 pounds. Check the door tag, hopefully yours is better than that!


Creative writing Grand Prize Winner! (from Nissan brochure): "While it depends on which model and configuration you choose, your 2017 Frontier will offer a maximum payload capacity between 936 lbs to 1,496 lbs. This impressive capability"

936 pounds is anything but impressive! Put a couple of passengers in your truck, a camper top, and some stuff in back, and you are already at the payload rating. The more options on your truck, the lower your payload. My Ford Lariat (pretty loaded up with options) loses 1/3 of the payload rating that a stripped down F150 enjoys.....

Good info here... A lot of today's trucks just have no payload. you put two cheeseburger eaten grown men in there and 1/2 you payload is gone.
I seen several post where $30,000 to $40,000 trucks suspension can not handle 350lbs on the hitch. My Tacoma included
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
If I remember correctly you are not allowed to quote Nissan's owners manual or advertising literature on this forum.
I quoted from their owners manual one time ( Word for Word ) and was severely chastised and reprimanded...
Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
...more likely, the owners manual is COPYRIGHTED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
...Copyright infringement was definitely the reason for their objections to my quoting the owners manual...
Quoting limited excerpts from copyrighted works with attribution is permitted under the "Fair Use Rule" for purposes including, among other things, news reporting, criticism and commentary, as well as parody (which sounds up your alley, Steve ).

Generally it's safest to quote a short excerpt with a link to the whole work. I have done that many times here. In this case, I will skip the quote and go straight to the link.

Fair Use Rule
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:12 PM   #16
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I added a reference to where the quote was from on my original posting.


Now back to the regularly scheduled broadcast....
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
Good info here... A lot of today's trucks just have no payload. you put two cheeseburger eaten grown men in there and 1/2 you payload is gone.
I seen several post where $30,000 to $40,000 trucks suspension can not handle 350lbs on the hitch. My Tacoma included
Yes, tow rating is based on the engine, transmission, and model of the truck. Payload is a totally different animal. The more options you get, the lower the payload. The tow rating stays the same, but its not achievable. Get a Platinum or King Ranch 4WD F!50 and watch your payload rating plummet. Meanwhile, a stripped down model can have double the payload capacity.
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by whoot View Post
I took off my spare tire when I was skirting the Casita, and had some trouble putting it back on, so I put it in the back of my pickup truck. Then I put a bunch of other stuff in to my truck (Nissan Frontier V6 crew-cab w/tow package). My stuff isn't really heavy, but I guess it added up to lower the back of the truck about .5 inches. The truck can tow 5k lbs with a regular hitch (which i have), and 6.5k lbs with a WD hitch.

My Casita has some stuff in it, but I have tried to keep it light. Without the spare on the back it will be lighter than normal. I plan to empty my gray/black tanks, and drain my freshwater tank, before I tow it. When I get where I am going, I wont be able dump my gray/black tanks, so I am avoiding using them when traveling. I have a porta-potti and 3 gal water jug inside the Casita, to use as my bathroom system. I don't know how to drain the hot water heater, but I will need to figure that out.

I was thinking by moving most stuff from inside the Casita in to my truck, I would make towing the Casita easier. But now I am wondering if it is possible to overload the truck and make it not good for towing. The heaviest things in my truck are some steel tools for working on the Casita (wrenches, etc) and 5 gal of gasoline. Plus I have a cap on the back, and a Yakima box on top of that.

I think the Casita puts 300lbs on the hitch, which will definitely lower the back of the truck a bit. I guess I will find out how much, when I hook it up to leave.

The Yakima box weighs about 60 lbs, and I think the Leer cap on the back might weigh 250lbs.

I could move the Casita's spare tire, and some tools, in to the Casita, near the front. That would take some weight out of the truck, and make the Casita heavier.

My concerns are my headlights shining in people's eyes, and the Casita fish-tailing (I will be using a Curtis sway bar).

Maybe I will post a picture once I get it hitched up. I guess people use "air bags" to level their truck out, but I don't have those.

Attachment 115768
Attachment 115769
Attachment 115770
Leave the spare on the back of the trailer. It is there to help balance out things. We travel with full tank of fresh water and hot water tank full. We also load our fridge and have full propane tanks. We have not had any problems with it ever in 11 years. We do empty the holding tanks. The reason there are tanks, etc is for our comfort. Our trailer sits perfectly level, doesn't pull down the rear of our TV, handles so nice and smooth on the road and all we have is a sway bar from Casita. We've pulled the trailer with a van, Trailblazer, Blazer, and Yukon. All pulled the same. If we want to stop for a night boondocking we have the water to do it. I think the way Casita did the tanks keeps the trailer balanced. We've been to many Casita rallies and everyone that we know has done the same as us. If the trailer is to light it has a tendency to bounce more. So don't overload but load up and enjoy the trailer the way it is built. If you are afraid of to much weight then put in 1/2 tank of water. To drain the hot water tank unscrew the drain plug at the bottom of the tank inside the hot water tank door. Most take about a 7/8-1 inch socket. Just make sure water is not hot so you don't get burned.
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:42 PM   #19
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[A lot of today's trucks just have no payload. you put two cheeseburger eaten grown men in there and 1/2 you payload is gone.
I seen several post where $30,000 to $40,000 trucks suspension can not handle 350lbs on the hitch.]

Oh well, just get a 3/4 ton or better yet a 1 ton pickup (or van) then you don't have to worry much about what you are carrying.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:38 PM   #20
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Ford now makes an F150 with up to a whopping 3,270 pounds of payload. Even with lots of options, you probably are talking 2,500 pounds or more of payload. Much higher than any other brand. Ford's F150 is the number 1 selling vehicle, go figure, Ford wants to keep an advantage over everyone else. The competition in the truck market is a good thing, and Ford is continually upping their game. Watch for others to catch up!

That Ford with the heavy duty payload and max tow package is going to greatly expand the capability of towing with a half ton truck. When you consider the F150 is a half ton truck, but it can have OVER 1 1/2 tons of payload, its really amazing! Basically 3/4 ton to 1 ton truck capability out of a half ton truck.
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