welded vs bolted axle

[RogerDat]

While a torsion axle may not wear out for 10 or 20 years they can get damaged. If you weld the bolt brackets on and ever have a damaged axle those brackets will end up being cheap insurance.

I also think it provides some slack in who can replace an axle. A really good welder is not found in every shop so if you pick a good one to do the inititial welding of brackets, future replacement of bolts can be done by someone less skilled.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by floyd

Why then does Dexter want to know which way you plan to install when ordering? Why not "require" instead of "recommend" the brackets.

A question for Dexter. Let me know what they say.

Never let a warranty stand in the way of improvements.

If you're buying, I won't

I have not said that bolt-on brackets are bad at all.I just wondered what all the fuss was about...
Still wondering
Appears to be more or less a distinction without a difference.

I think the question of why some would prefer the bolt on axle has been answered. My trailer has the axle bolted, yours is welded. We're both happy. Ain't it grand Raz

[Darwin Maring]

Does the bolt on axle make it easier to "raise" a scamp a couple of inches? I've never noticed (never looked and can't right now as it's stored) if my 16' Scamp 2011 is bolted on axle or not. Darn!

When I changed the axle from a weld to a bolt on, I had the welder install it a couple inches higher. Welded on a 2 inch riser then welded the brackets to the riser then bolted the axle on.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by floyd

Assuming the bolt-on brackets are already installed?

Yes, I thought that was the scenario. For the first installation of the side-mount hangers ("bolt on brackets"), it's a welding job just like a straight weld-on, plus a couple more pieces to deal with. As Eddie said at the beginning, making the installation bolt-on is to benefit the person doing the next replacement.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by floyd

RV trailer frames are not stress relieved...

They are not stress relieved, but that wouldn't be a problem for welding anyway. I assume you meant "heat treated" to a hardened state, Floyd.

Some trailer frames are hardened, but generally not our North American moulded fiberglass travel trailers, and I assume generally not any trailer frame assembled by welding... it would be too expensive to heat treat the assembled frame.

Big truck frames are different story. Some are hardened, some are hardened only in the flange areas (which is nice: they're strong, yet brackets can still be welded to the web). Watch out for heat treatment of pickup truck frames, too, when mounting hardware such as fifth-wheel hitches.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ian G.

In my experience it does not matter if the axle is welded or bolted, removing the axle after 20+++ years still requires cutting either the welds or the bolts.

Interesting... I have not found that I have generally had to cut 20-year-old bolts off of auto suspensions, although an impact wrench is sometimes required. I would still rather grind off a bolt head than grind away all of the welds to the frame, and I would rather install a new bolt than arrange to have an axle welded on; that's a personal preference, and may be affected by my distrust of a relatively thin automotive structure surviving grinding off brackets.

Originally Posted by frank_a

Having the ready ability (i.e., not owning a welder) to move an axle back a bit can have a very positive effect on trailer sway control as well. I would always prefer a bolt on axle.

Originally Posted by Ian G.

The only difference in my mind is that a bolt-on installation allows for easier future adjustment to the axle position either side to side or front to back if needed.

I don't understand how this front-to-back adjustment is supposed to work. The Dexter side-mount hanger is the the size of the axle bracket and has holes which align to the holes in the axle bracket; it is not a long strip with a series of mounting holes to choose from. Even if one custom-fabricated hangers with the intention of allowing adjustment, the requirement for a notch to clear the cross-tube of the axle would keep this from having any significant range, and the spacing structurally required for those large bolt holes would keep it from having fine adjustment capability.

I also don't see the freedom in a typical moulded fiberglass travel trailer body to significantly re-position the axle longitudinally (e.g. further back) due to wheel well position and size. More conventional travel trailers that run the floor over top of the tires without a wheel well would be in a better position to accept a modified axle position.

For side-to-side positioning: even without any bolts installed, the side mount hangers prevent any lateral motion of the axle, whether intentionally (for adjustment) or unintentionally. If the hangers were installed originally with spacers between the hanger and axle bracket (not as directed by Dexter), then those shims could be changed later to move the axle slightly in the lateral direction; has anyone done this, and would there be any significant benefit even if is structurally acceptable?

This is not like U-bolting axle brackets onto a modular boat trailer frame, or sliding a fifth-wheel along mounting rails.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

While a torsion axle may not wear out for 10 or 20 years they can get damaged. If you weld the bolt brackets on and ever have a damaged axle those brackets will end up being cheap insurance.

I also think it provides some slack in who can replace an axle. A really good welder is not found in every shop so if you pick a good one to do the inititial welding of brackets, future replacement of bolts can be done by someone less skilled.

Good points all!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

They are not stress relieved, but that wouldn't be a problem for welding anyway. I assume you meant "heat treated" to a hardened state, Floyd.

Some trailer frames are hardened, but generally not our North American moulded fiberglass travel trailers, and I assume generally not any trailer frame assembled by welding... it would be too expensive to heat treat the assembled frame.

Big truck frames are different story. Some are hardened, some are hardened only in the flange areas (which is nice: they're strong, yet brackets can still be welded to the web). Watch out for heat treatment of pickup truck frames, too, when mounting hardware such as fifth-wheel hitches.

Quote from "Stress Relief Basics" by Andrew Cullison...
"The most commonly used method of stress relieving weldments is by postweld heat treatment. Its effectiveness is dependent on the control exercised in bringing the component to temperature and then its subsequent cooling."...

If you like we will just call it "heat treated", I guess using that term came from 35 years of hearing it and seeing it on weld relateds and work orders in the refinery.
I do understand that there are "non heat" forms of stress relief as well... such as shot peening, but not in the case of truck frames.

[Eddie Longest]

Raising a trailer with frame welded side mount brackets: Dexter has three axel brackets heights 0", 1" and high lift 3". Most of our trailer have the 1" bracket to allow room for the axle camber bend with the drop floor trailers. When you want a lift at axel replacement time you can order a high lift bracket and raise the trailer an additional 2". If you want more axle ground clearance you can only get it by increasing downward angle of the swing arms.
Orbital machine works makes 3" spacers that bolt between your current bolt on axle and welded side mount brackets . The Casita crowd use these blocks when putting 15" tires on their trailers.
http://perfectcasita.com/casita-axle-lift-kit.html
Eddie

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Eddie Longest

.......The Casita crowd use these blocks when putting 15" tires on their trailers.
Eddie

I'm a Scamp owner and replaced the axle a number of years ago. I run 15" tires. Had I known THEN, what I know NOW, I would have purchased a 22 degree down axle and used a spacer... everything bolted on. Instead, I went with a 45 degree DOWN axle and it's welded on. Either way would work, live and learn... and add bunches of years here. Isn't knowledge grand!

[ruscal]

Welding vs. bolting makes no difference to a skilled metal fabricator as far as ease of doing the job. In a perfect world all trailer axles would have the same standard bolt layout so they could be interchanged by walking into Walmart throwing the axle into the cart taking the axle home and have your teen age daughter bolt it in. In the world as it is, axles are installed in a variety of ways and sourced from several companies. Just have the fabricator do the job the way he or she feels comfortable with. Structurally both are sound methods, and certainly won't cause problems for the next owner. The average guy doesn't possess the skill set to tackle this job anyway.
Russ

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Eddie Longest

Raising a trailer with frame welded side mount brackets: Dexter has three axel brackets heights 0", 1" and high lift 3". Most of our trailer have the 1" bracket to allow room for the axle camber bend with the drop floor trailers. When you want a lift at axel replacement time you can order a high lift bracket and raise the trailer an additional 2". If you want more axle ground clearance you can only get it by increasing downward angle of the swing arms.
Orbital machine works makes 3" spacers that bolt between your current bolt on axle and welded side mount brackets . The Casita crowd use these blocks when putting 15" tires on their trailers.
Casita (Dexter Torflex #10) Axle Lift Kit
Eddie

Best point so far! The 13Scamp could actually use just about that 2" height increase to make it perfect when ordered with a graywater tank and flush toilet.

[SharonM]

Donna, have you got a pic of your scamp "from the waist down" (since you're camera shy and you've probably instilled that in your scamp) so I can see how a 16 looks standing on 15" stilettos? I'm so darned curious as to how it looks perched way up there.

Sharon

[Donna D.]

Sharon, my camera died and I don't own a cell phone.. all I can tell you is I'm perfectly happy with what I've done. Yes, I would change it to what I posted earlier, because NOW I know the reasons for doing things differently. At the time, I didn't have that knowledge....

Remember, I'm towing with a Ford F-150 truck.....

I'll look for a picture, I think someone posted a pic of my tug and tow at some gathering.... don't hold your breath!

[SharonM]

Donna, if I don't hold my breath, who will?

S.

[Donna D.]

Okay, Sharon found a crappy photo. Mike Price made a movie of the 2011 NOG at L.L. Stubb Stewart SP. This is a screen capture from that. Notice the bottom of my tug (2 wheel drive Ford F-150) is the same as my Scamp:

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by ruscal

Welding vs. bolting makes no difference to a skilled metal fabricator as far as ease of doing the job. In a perfect world all trailer axles would have the same standard bolt layout so they could be interchanged by walking into Walmart throwing the axle into the cart taking the axle home and have your teen age daughter bolt it in. In the world as it is, axles are installed in a variety of ways and sourced from several companies. Just have the fabricator do the job the way he or she feels comfortable with. Structurally both are sound methods, and certainly won't cause problems for the next owner. The average guy doesn't possess the skill set to tackle this job anyway.
Russ

Removing 4 bolts isn't any easier than cutting off, grinding smooth, welding on, and repainting? We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Most of the guys I know possess the skill to do this…it's a rough built camper, not a rocket.

[Mike Magee]

I'm a bit puzzled. (Not hard to puzzle me!) In another thread, someone stated that a torsion axle should not be welded because the welding heat can ruin the rubber inside the axle. But here we are on page 3 of this discussion, and no one has mentioned this issue. What's the deal?

[SharonM]

Donna, yes, I see that even-ness. I'd love that for my rig. I have (frikkin) 17" tires on my pathfinder. I wish they were 16's. But anyway, I love that level of clearance. Am working on budget -- I need several other critical things as well before I hit the road.

Thx, S.

[Jeff Richardson]

Here's a picture of Donna's Scamp that I took at the 2011 Spring NOG. Click on the picture to enlarge it.

Jeff