welded vs bolted axle

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by floyd

If you like we will just call it "heat treated", I guess using that term came from 35 years of hearing it and seeing it on weld relateds and work orders in the refinery.I do understand that there are "non heat" forms of stress relief as well... such as shot peening, but not in the case of truck frames.

Yes, stress relieving is usually done by heat treating, but heat treating can be used to harden, or to soften... or to stress relieve. The one which causes problems for welding is hardening, so a stress-relieved structure would likely have been heat-treated, but wouldn't be a problem to weld.

It would be bad to weld an axle onto a hardened frame; as far as I know it would be fine to weld an axle onto a stress-relieved frame. Both are heat-treated.

[SharonM]

Great photo, Jeff. I get a good feel for how high that sucker sits -- the clearance is splendid!

Sharon

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

I'm a bit puzzled. (Not hard to puzzle me!) In another thread, someone stated that a torsion axle should not be welded because the welding heat can ruin the rubber inside the axle. But here we are on page 3 of this discussion, and no one has mentioned this issue. What's the deal?

In my old Dexter manual they have a paragraph devoted to warning about damage due to welding on the axle as well as it being the customers problem to remove the welded axle should replacement under warranty be required. I reviewed the current documents at the Dexter site and I can't seem to find it??

[frank_a]

That is a concern about warping due to excessive weld heat, a very common problem with inexperienced welders. I don't know what to tell you about the Dexter manual.

Frank

[rabbit]

Is "excessive" weld heat necessary to carbonize rubber splines inside the axle tube? Is duration of the heat important? Is welding on a flange or bracket appendage equivalent to welding on the tube or housing in the Dexter proscription?

jack

[stevebaz]

In a rubber suspension axle the factory welds a mounting flange to the axle before the rubber is installed. The customer is welding the mounting flange to the trailer or in the case of a bolt on axle a seperate mounting flange is welded to the trailer and bolting the axle to the trailers flange. In no case is the customer welding directly to the axle causing a heat issue. If your inexperienced welder is causing so much heat to transfer from the axles mounting flange down to the rubber core of the axle you best call the fire department so they can put the egg out.

[Thinh]

...This is what I do when I weld steel/galvanized materials together and I am only an amateur: I only prefer arc(stick) welding due to it's strong bond...When welding a connection of a thinner pipe to a thicker one, I would start @ the thicker pipe and quickly "draw" the weld to thinner material. Always paying attention to thinner and draw the heat away from it in time to not punching it. When welding steel with plastic/rubber materials adjacent to it, I just wrap a soak/wet rag around or before plastic/rubber material to protect it from the heat. I could see steam coming up form this rag and gotto soak it again....Just my work....

[Jared J]

Galvanized really shouldn't be welded at all.

[Thinh]

...All galvanized pipes are OK to weld if you are OK with the ...SPARKS. If one is not used to with sparks during welding, he/she could easily get rid off that by grinding/sanding the galvanized layer off the pipe and just weld it....

[Jared J]

No, no it's not. You're giving out horribly dangerous advice. Look up metal fume fever, then look up heavy metal poisoning, and paw paw Wilson. The galvanized is not safe, and should not be messed with unless need be, and then, only with some form of breathing protection. You can grind it off first, but that isn't good for you, either.

[Thinh]

...Thanks for advice as of manufacturing standards. But like I said, i am no professional and as amateur, he/she would do whatever is available to him/her and this case including the possibility. I just share with my own ptacitcal experiences...Thanks again...

[Jared J]

Amateurs die like everybody else, it's not something to take lightly. People have gotten sick and died from galvanized fumes. Death isn't common, but it has happened.

[Kenny in Ohio]

You are correct about the fumes from galvanized metal. I welded for many years and experienced fume poisoning, it makes you sick with flue like feelings of hot sweats and cold shakes. The good thing is once you have experienced it you learn not to do it again. Making one or two welds on something galvanized shouldn't be a problem if you don't inhale the fumes. Make sure the fumes are extracted away from your face and out of the area. Now having said all that, as a welder I would rather the axels come bolted on from the factory to make it easier to change if need arise. If the brackets on the frame are squared properly at the factory your alignment becomes a no brainer and any novice could make the change out.

[RogerDat]

No welding of galvanized without specific protections, think positive pressure mask. In manufacture the zinc coating goes on after the welding. Any fan solution that would remove the fumes will also tend to pull the inert gas envelope from around the welding arc.

The wet rag approach is one I have used to limit the spread of heat. Works fairly well to a point. Don't want to quench a hot weld with water, leads to brittle metal.

It is probably a good time to mention take care in where you place your ground. If you connect ground to location that causes current to run through bearings...bearings don't work all that well after current arcs across all the little gaps.

Don't actually know anyone that has done this to a torsion axle but do know of it being done.

Not sure why galvanized is an issue, are any of these axles or brackets zinc plated?

[rabbit]

The undercarriage of the Lil Snoozy appears to be a close relative of boat trailers, including the galvanizing. None of them old enough to require axle replacement, whatever the attachment method.

jack

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Jeff Richardson

Here's a picture of Donna's Scamp that I took at the 2011 Spring NOG. Click on the picture to enlarge it.

Jeff

What's the point if Donna's not in the picture!

[jwcolby54]

Donna, what are those stabilizers? I want some for my 16.

[Kenny in Ohio]

The fan draws the air from around the welder's breathing zone not from the weld pool. I worked in a steel mill with a continuous galvanizing line. Once in a while the strip would break and the fastest and easy way to get the line running was to clamp the two broken pieces together (14-18 ga. sheet) and weld using stick rod e-6010 in straight polarity (-) and zap together. Of course the fumes were tremendous and we held our breath as well as fans to draw away as much as we could. That was in the old days, we were competing against the Chinese. They have now won and are galvanizing for us. I wouldn't worry about the once and in awhile fumes you make welding in the back yard, you should pay more attention to the glues used to make the shell.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

Donna, what are those stabilizers? I want some for my 16.

John, they're Wayne's Stabilizers. If I was to do it again, I'd go with what Floyd uses: BAL 23026 - BAL Stabilizing Jacks, 1/pr 23026 - RV Plus

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by rabbit

The undercarriage of the Lil Snoozy appears to be a close relative of boat trailers, including the galvanizing. None of them old enough to require axle replacement, whatever the attachment method.

jack

As a matter of fact, they are boat trailers!

Frank