What is the best tow vehicle for a Trillium 4500?

[MC1]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

My nephew, who has a class 1 hitch on his Intrepid, towed my 4500 back from Ontario this summer. It was empty.

Those Intrepid's with the 3.5L V6 were great TV's when set up right. We saw many in these parts towing TT's.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Or you could be footing the bill for a warranty repair after the service manager looks down and sees a Class II or higher hitch on a car that based on its tow cap shouldnt need anything more than a Class I hitch

Never heard of that happening.

One of the reasons we have a 2" receiver on our vehicles is to accommodate the robust 2" draw bar bike racks. Had a bad experience once with the 1 1/4" bar breaking with just 50lbs of bikes on it.

[Carol H]

So to summarize this - the OP has a 4500lb Trillum thats probable at or over its axle limit (if the axle has not been replaced), vehicle being considered would be at 500lbs or more over on its tow specs and they should use a class I hitch which also would be maxed out at if not over its load limit rating pulling their trailer, in order to avoid the scrutiny of the local service manager should they have warranty issues due to towing over the vehicle's specs. You guys are ok with all that? Seriously???

Sounds more like a really good recipe for big troubles to me...

[David Tilston]

I am not advocating either way. Just stating the facts, as I see them. I would think the fact that I upgraded the one I use to a 3500 lb axle, and a 2" coupler, indicates where I stand in terms of over loading.

This model of trailer has been in service for 36 years. Since they don't have a reputation for catastrophic failures, I can only assume there have not been many problems. Like I said, every one I have came with the original axle.

Just to clarify, it is probably a 2000 lb trailer, not 4500 lb. 4500 is the model number.

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by MC1

Those Intrepid's with the 3.5L V6 were great TV's when set up right. We saw many in these parts towing TT's.

My brother, (father of said nephew) took the car and trailer combo out to, "try to loose the trailer". Apparently, this involved several high speed swerves, heavy braking, and general recklessness. He came back and said, "Neutral control response. We are good to go." Whatever that means.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

My brother, (father of said nephew) took the car and trailer combo out to, "try to loose the trailer". Apparently, this involved several high speed swerves, heavy braking, and general recklessness. He came back and said, "Neutral control response. We are good to go." Whatever that means.

I think I know what your brother means David.... Can-Am RV :: Intrepid towing Airstream

[Bob Miller]

Real men don't use 1-1/4" receiver trailer hitches !!!!!
(Real women don't either, so there!)

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by frank_a

My only complaint is that the factory tow package only comes with a 4 pole flat trailer connector, so a 7 pin RV plug has to be wired in. It can be done, but it's no piece of cake like my plug and play F-150 was!

It is not all that difficult Frank.
I picked up a Hopkins 7:4 Multi-Tow adapter.
7:4-Way Multi-Tow® Trailer Adapter | Princess Auto
You plug your 4 pin into the back of it.
If you want brakes you can run 1 wire up to your controller.
If you want power you can run 1 more wire up to the front.
If you want a continuous ground, run 1 more wire up to the front.
You can leave the 7th pin disconnected to avoid problems for most of ours.
When I first installed mine, I thought using the 7th pin would be a good idea for an additional ground to the power. I messed up and forgot the difference in colour codes for power and ground between the Tow Vehicle and the Trailer. (I wired them at different times) Things got hot very quickly. Good thing Steve_L was there to help me figure out my mistake. Even better that Carol Ann was there to see the smoke before any thing serious happened.
Now I just follow the standard pin arrangement leaving the middle pin disconnected. You never know how things might be wired on different TV's and Trailers.

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by Roy in TO

It is not all that difficult Frank.
I picked up a Hopkins 7:4 Multi-Tow adapter.
7:4-Way Multi-Tow® Trailer Adapter | Princess Auto
You plug your 4 pin into the back of it.
If you want brakes you can run 1 wire up to your controller.
If you want power you can run 1 more wire up to the front.
If you want a continuous ground, run 1 more wire up to the front.
You can leave the 7th pin disconnected to avoid problems for most of ours.
When I first installed mine, I thought using the 7th pin would be a good idea for an additional ground to the power. I messed up and forgot the difference in colour codes for power and ground between the Tow Vehicle and the Trailer. (I wired them at different times) Things got hot very quickly. Good thing Steve_L was there to help me figure out my mistake. Even better that Carol Ann was there to see the smoke before any thing serious happened.
Now I just follow the standard pin arrangement leaving the middle pin disconnected. You never know how things might be wired on different TV's and Trailers.

I wish we lived closer, you could come over and do it. My 2001 F-150 didn't even come with a tow package, but I got a 7 pin wiring harness for it that just popped in between a plug on the back left chassis rail. Then under the dash, right by the OBD plug, is a plug for the brake controller. And this is for a vehicle that did not come with a tow package.

I know how to wire a 7 pin, but just do not look forward to it. It's a pain in the butt hiding the wires, getting through the firewall and finding the wire that is the brake switch wire under the dash someplace. And all this for a vehicle we bought with a factory tow package. It will take me at least 1/2 a day to get it done, partly because of age and arthritis. I do not look forward to it.

Frank

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Real men don't use 1-1/4" receiver trailer hitches !!!!!
(Real women don't either, so there!)

So if you don't like a class 2 hitch, what must you think of a class 1?

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

So if you don't like a class 2 hitch, what must you think of a class 1?

You can get Class II hitches with a 2" receiver.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Or you could be footing the bill for a warranty repair after the service manager looks down and sees a Class II or higher hitch on a car that based on its tow cap shouldnt need anything more than a Class I hitch

Completely illegal under the magnusson moss act.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Completely illegal under the magnusson moss act.

I agree that, on it's face, that would be illegal. You could have installed it for a bicycle carrier, scooter carrier etc. or you tow a small utility trailer and like the bigger hitch mount (Size does matter ya know)

BUT... if the Service Manager then sees a brake controller, a charging line feed and a 7 pin connector, it is a tip off to possible "Operation beyond design specifications" and you just opened a whole bag of worms if your warranty claim involves driveline or suspension related issues.

I think that the technical term is something like: "Smoking Gun"

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Completely illegal under the magnusson moss act.

Nope its not!

Key points to the Magnuson Moss Act::

* The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance.

* A "limited warranty" is one that does not meet the federal minimums. Such warranties must be "conspicuously designated" as limited warranties.

Have a hunch Jared you will find a clause written in every vehicle's manual and warranty book in regards to misuse of a vehicle's intended use as well as "Limited" warranty clause. A manufacture could make a real good case for "unreasonable use" if you were to tow a trailer over the vehicle's towing specifications as stated in the manual.

As a side note the OP is Canadian so the above Act does not cover them regardless. We do have similar consumer protection acts in Canada but again if its a limited warranty or the work required is the result of misuse of the vehicle or lack of maintenance the manufacture has the right to decline to cover it under warranty.

[honda03842]

From my perspective, the reality is that automobile dealers get paid for repairs that are generally not overseen by manufacturers. They make money doing them. The dealers job is to sell and repair, to maintain and grow the customer base and not to report vehicle use.

In our case we have told our dealer what and where we tow. As well we submitted a story to Honda USA of our tow trip thru Labrador.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

From my perspective, the reality is that automobile dealers get paid for repairs that are generally not overseen by manufacturers. They make money doing them. The dealers job is to sell and repair, to maintain and grow the customer base and not to report vehicle use.
.

I think Norm that you need to spend a little time on car forums as there are plenty of folks who have had their warranty claims for engine repairs for example denied simply for not being able to prove the vehicle was serviced per the schedule laid out in their warrenty books - ie they did the oil changes etc themselves & did not keep the receipts for what they bought in order to do the change or to show when the oil or filter changes took place.

[Carol H]

Norm I meant to mention that I have BTW had a warranty claim/work denied by a dealer - who I had purchased several new cars from in the past and who had done the servicing of them all over 20 years. They refused to do the warranty work simple because I didnt buy the car in question from them. Tried but they were back ordered for months when I needed the car - even tried to get them to buy the car I needed from another dealer who had lots of them. I pointing out to them that if they refused to do the warranty work it was a good bet I would never buy another car from them or continue to have my cars serviced there in the future - did not make good business sense to me. They stood firm on their decision.

I contacted the Head office of the vehicle manufacture on the topic and they agreed it was wrong for the dealer to have denied warranty work on those grounds & I did eventually get the work covered but at a different dealer (not the one I purchased the car from either). It was explained to me that the issue was the dealer doesnt make the same amount of money doing warranty work as they do if the consumer is paying for the job themselves and in some areas with high overhead & wages they may actually be losing money doing warranty work. No incentive for the dealer to fill up their service bays with a bunch of cars getting warranty work done & a good reason for them to find a reason to not do the work under warranty. .

[Bob Miller]

Bottom Line $$$ is always #1 at a dealers shop

That said, most mfgs. pay a substantially lower labor rate to a shop for warrantee work, and the mechanics doing it can get paid less for that work as well.

The amount that the factory pays for warantee parts is usually reduced to as low as 10% over cost, another loss of profit

When a mechanic is tied up doing a major warrantee job, she isn't doing higher profit drive-in customer work.

In many shops it is the newest mechanics that get stuck with the warrantee work as they get paid less for the jobs and more senior mechanics get to pick the plum jobs.

There are service alert bulletins sent to dealers tipping them off to non-warranty repairs that can caused by misuse and how to identify them. If the dealer submits a claim for reimbursement on one of these alerts it may well be rejected by the mfg. A very good reason to keep ones eyes open.

Unlike in the OLD days, dealers really don't expect much customer return loyalty, especially in larger cities. And if you ask for warantee work at a dealer you haven't delt with in the past, so much more the lack of interest.

All that said, most dealers prefer to not have to deal with warrantee work and, to look good to the peeps at their regional offices, can make points logging "Refused for cause" warrantee claims into the data system so that every dealer you go to after that will be able to access.....

This information comes from a long time friend that has worked in the dealership repair system for about 20 years.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

I agree that, on it's face, that would be illegal. You could have installed it for a bicycle carrier, scooter carrier etc. or you tow a small utility trailer and like the bigger hitch mount (Size does matter ya know)

BUT... if the Service Manager then sees a brake controller, a charging line feed and a 7 pin connector, it is a tip off to possible "Operation beyond design specifications" and you just opened a whole bag of worms if your warranty claim involves driveline or suspension related issues.

I think that the technical term is something like: "Smoking Gun"

A good question Bob and thnxs for posting....

Since I have upgraded the class 1 receiver to a 2" class IV I too asked many questions about warranty work.

This post #13 puts my concerns to rest. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...le-109037.html

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

This post #13 puts my concerns to rest. New / Old Tow Vehicle - Airstream Forums

Why would the comments of someone who installs hitches for a living and simple because few of his customers have reported to them they had their warranty claims rejected rest your concerns.

I have a hunch most people would be like me and not bother to say anything to the hitch installer because I was the idiot who paid them to do it knowing full well what I was doing & no doubt signed off on the service contract to do the job.

What would the point in wasting any more time or money of possible a long distant call to cry over it with the guy who installed the hitch?