What "Small Car" can really tow a Scamp? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-05-2011, 02:29 PM   #15
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I talked to Trillium yesterday regarding a 13' model and he recommended a class II hitch on my VW. My manual states that my 2008 City Golf may tow class I and class II trailers and is rated to tow 3086 lbs with brakes and 1321 lbs without brakes. He was under the impression that class I was rated to 1500 lbs (I thought it was 2000 lbs). Althought the Trillium weighs less than 1700 lbs the GVWR is way up there, closer to the 3500 lb class II hitch.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:08 PM   #16
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Norm:

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my question. When you have chance could you please list the essential safety procedures you follow as mentioned in one of your responses?

thank you,

bill
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
Brakes are a must in my mind as well. Besides everyday braking and rainy day braking it's an instantaneous way to stop sway, hitting the brake controller and applying just the trailer brakes.

When we were beginning we put a small 40# generator on the rear bumper and managed to induce a little sway. One tap on the brake controller activating the trailer's brakes straightened it out. We quickly stopped and moved the generator inside.

Norm
Norm:

When estimating the weight a car can tow, if for example, the owner's manual says it can tow 2000 lbs., does that mean that we must add the dry weight of the trailer to the items added inside the trailer to the weight content of the car (passengers, driver, luggage, etc.)?

bill
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:47 PM   #18
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Thank you Andy! We will never find two tugs, two trailers, packed the same way with the same stuff going down the same road and the same speeds with a driver and passenger weighing the same so comparisons are like apples and oranges. I think it would be totally irresponsible to even suggest someone ignore whatever the manual for their vehicle says the tow limit may be.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Garlow View Post
Taken verbatim from the Scamp website is the following statement:

"Towable by Small Cars - Our small campers are very economical; especially important with today’s high fuel costs. All three size Scamps have been designed to be towed by small cars, SUVs, mini vans, and trucks. The aerodynamic design assures high fuel efficiency and most people can tow the Scamp with a vehicle they already own

It bothers me to read in this statement that a 'small car' can tow a Scamp. Are there really any 'small cars' out there that are actually rated to tow one?
I tow my Scamp 13 with a 4CYL. Ford Escape, It is a small car by some standards, but not compared to my 2CYL SuBARu 360 which weighs only 950#
I have been to the Scamp factory several times and I once saw a Honda Civic leave with a 13 in tow.
The term "small car" is not a definitive term, and the responsibility lies with the buyer to decide what that means.
Those who are not qualified to make such determinations for themselves,
should seek the advice of those who are. If qualified advice is not readily available there is always a chart somewhere with a "tow-rating" listed for the prospective vehicle, provided an honest weight and frontal area can be determined! If no good advice can be had through normal channels, one can always turn to the internet and read everything from Wikipedia to Mfrog, then try to separate the wheat from the chaff!
At any rate, Scamp's statement is essentially correct when properly interpreted.

I once( back in the early 90's) responded to a Pepboys Ad which stated that Struts were on sale for $119 a pair installed for "most cars" .
It was determined that my Ford Tempo didn't qualify as "most cars"
I sarcasticly suggested that perhaps a Ferrari 360 Spider might qualify, the tech replied... Yeah , Probably!
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:54 PM   #20
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Hold the phone! Floyd, you have a Subaru 360 and a Scamp? Me too! Actually, I have two 360's. One almost ready for the road and a Young that needs some work. If you're also in to pedal mopeds from the 70's than I think we were separated at birth.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan L. View Post
Hold the phone! Floyd, you have a Subaru 360 and a Scamp? Me too! Actually, I have two 360's. One almost ready for the road and a Young that needs some work. If you're also in to pedal mopeds from the 70's than I think we were separated at birth.
This may be off topic but I have a Pinto, 5.0 project car which needs my attention.... would you like a 3rd 360 ,if the price was right?
Just to keep it on topic.... I advise that you NOT tow your Scamp with this small car (actually micro-car)
Truth be told, my only 2 wheelers are bicycles, I am a little intimidated by what my son once called "Murderphychoes" or their ilk.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:16 PM   #22
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When I underlined the word car it was to emphasize what most people think of as a car... which would be a Honda Civic, a Ford Focus, Chevy Malibu (not an Escape, CRV, or Element which have been manufactured with some additional utility in mind, including towing.) I know that there are some select few 'cars' that are rated to tow upwards of 1500lbs, but the majority cannot. And even a 1500lb tow rating is not really high enough for many of the trailers we have.
So many newbies think that they'll be able to pull a 'little' trailer with their little car due to the claims. (this included me too when I first started shopping!)
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin G View Post
The issue is Norm, We are not in Europe! So as American's we should go by the Standards developed for this country and our driving conditions.

Our Laws are different, Our insurance is different. I realize you tow with a much smaller vehicle than recommended. But can you be sure your insurance will cover you when you choose to disregard the standards set by the USA towing ratings? From what I know, they most likely will not. Or their coverage will be limited. And no, I have never had an issue! I just know of others in a different subject/issue that have had. Sorry I haven't had time to search for the one member here that I know of this particular subject/issue.

I have (as well as others) said (in other towing discussions) perhaps we shouldn't recommend it to others. Or for that matter we probably shouldn't even discuss the European/USA differences, cause again we are not in Europe. Their laws and guidelines are different than ours. Can we not stick to the what the law's, guidelines of this country are when discussing towing in the USA?


I am sorry to keep harping on this subject but, I would prefer to harp rather than someone getting hurt because "some" believe it's ok to not follow the guidelines set forth for towing in this country.........

I say if your in this country than you follow the guidelines/rules of our roads.
Life is a series of choices.

I am not suggesting anyone follow my lead. I am merely relating what my Honda does and why I feel good about it. This is a site for people to share information.

The Honda is an incrediably reliable vehicle, with good brakes, a reliable engine, and a strong transmission easily capable of towing our Scamp 16. It now has been towing for 5 years, has 150,000 miles and is 7 years old. It has not had a single driveline repair and tows the Scamp while getting 23 mpg.

The Honda's torque and horsepower to load ratio; it's tow vehicle to Scamp 16 weight ratio is very good and better than any full size trucks when the truck is towing their max trailer loads.

I can only tell you what we've done as can the other's on this site that tow with smaller vehicles. Certainly we don't charge up long grades and it seems small vehicle drivers are not driving 65-70 mph as many claim they do.

I am still waiting for someone to report an accident with someone towing a Scamp with a small vehicle having a tow vehicle caused accident. I see plenty with trucks towing trailers.

Norm
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin G View Post
The issue is Norm, We are not in Europe! So as American's we should go by the Standards developed for this country and our driving conditions.

Our Laws are different, Our insurance is different. I realize you tow with a much smaller vehicle than recommended. But can you be sure your insurance will cover you when you choose to disregard the standards set by the USA towing ratings? From what I know, they most likely will not. Or their coverage will be limited. And no, I have never had an issue! I just know of others in a different subject/issue that have had. Sorry I haven't had time to search for the one member here that I know of this particular subject/issue.

I have (as well as others) said (in other towing discussions) perhaps we shouldn't recommend it to others. Or for that matter we probably shouldn't even discuss the European/USA differences, cause again we are not in Europe. Their laws and guidelines are different than ours. Can we not stick to the what the law's, guidelines of this country are when discussing towing in the USA?


I am sorry to keep harping on this subject but, I would prefer to harp rather than someone getting hurt because "some" believe it's ok to not follow the guidelines set forth for towing in this country.........

I say if your in this country than you follow the guidelines/rules of our roads.
Please, be careful not to confuse recommendations, or "ratings" with laws... weight limit laws generally lump everything under 6000# into "cars and light trucks" (limits set by license plates), it is generally only above that weight where you find DOT regulations and licensing limitations for load size and weight limits starting to apply.
Perhaps an extreme case could get you ticketed for reckless driving, but then so can 15 over the limit in a car "rated" for 145MPH.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Garlow View Post
When I underlined the word car it was to emphasize what most people think of as a car... which would be a Honda Civic, a Ford Focus, Chevy Malibu (not an Escape, CRV, or Element which have been manufactured with some additional utility in mind, including towing.) I know that there are some select few 'cars' that are rated to tow upwards of 1500lbs, but the majority cannot. And even a 1500lb tow rating is not really high enough for many of the trailers we have.
So many newbies think that they'll be able to pull a 'little' trailer with their little car due to the claims. (this included me too when I first started shopping!)
Believe me,There are many small ersatz SUVs which are really just cars masquerading for marketing purposes, It can be either a "trick or treat", depending on how you try to use them.
Notice that Scamp with whom you take umbrage, did not underline the word "cars", nor did they indicate concurrance with your assumptions.
I do get your point though, and it is well taken!
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:41 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Garlow
When I underlined the word car it was to emphasize what most people think of as a car... which would be a Honda Civic, a Ford Focus, Chevy Malibu (not an Escape, CRV, or Element which have been manufactured with some additional utility in mind, including towing.) I know that there are some select few 'cars' that are rated to tow upwards of 1500lbs, but the majority cannot. And even a 1500lb tow rating is not really high enough for many of the trailers we have.
So many newbies think that they'll be able to pull a 'little' trailer with their little car due to the claims. (this included me too when I first started shopping!)
Pam, you should know that MANY car companies, both foreign and domestic, put the cars through rigorous tow testing. This is done by the manufacturer, not a government agency. The reason they do this is that customers is many countries want small, efficient cars that can tow. Pickup trucks and SUVs are all the rage here, but they a not common or desirable in many places. VW rates some models of the Golf to tow up to 3,300 pounds! This is after testing the car is various conditions, including hot weather towing in Arizona.

Foreign cars are generally sold here by a US subsidiary. For instance, my car is made by Toyota. They test the car and assign a tow rating to it. Toyota UK lists that rating in their manual. Toyota Motor Sales USA does not. The only difference is that my car in the UK actually has a smaller engine, and a fancier automatic climate control. I trust the manufacturer's testing in stares to towing rather than someone's "hunch" about what my car can or cannot tow.

Why do US auto importers and manufacturers often lower or completely drop the tow rating? This is the source of much debate on this forum and many others.

I feel very safe when towing my Scamp, or any of my other trailers. I load the trailer carefully to get the tongue weight I'm looking for, and I drive slowly and cautiously. I see many people towing trailers at high speeds out on US highways. I fee that this is much mo dangerous than towing safely with a small car.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:02 PM   #27
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It is more likely the case that someone will not fully understand the limitations, nor the implications of unbalanced overloaded trailers and tugs traveling too fast.... and I don't really want to be coming the other way down the road when they discover how much they don't know.....
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:26 PM   #28
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When it comes to towing limit laws they very widely from provice to province & state to state.
What I don't understand is that the North American automobile manufacturers don't actually test cars towing capacity they arbitrarilly set it at 0 or 1000 lbs. VW rates the Golf by model all the way to 3500lbs this is not because VW finds this helps with sales, most people don't tow trailers of any kind, it's because the TUV requires them to in order to legally sell automobiles in Germany. Even aftermarket parts need TUV certification.
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