What "Small Car" can really tow a Scamp? - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-05-2011, 11:44 PM   #29
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Sorry for the double post. I looked up some towing regs for various provinces none of which said anything about vehicle ratings provided by the manufacturer. What I did find interesting is that every province I looked at had a wheight requirement for trailer brakes & all different. Alberta 2004 lbs, BC 3000lbs. Alberta is mostly prairie and flat yet has a lower limit than BC which is mountainous but if you set up your rig to comply in bc then your illegal in Alberta. I'd like to know how they came up with these limits.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:25 AM   #30
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In regards to the original question as to whether or not there are truly any small cars that can legally tow a scamp the answer is yes. Subaru Outback can tow one fully loaded and be within the tow cap of the vehicle. There are Toyota RAV4 & Mazda CX models that can as well, no doubt a few others also.

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Originally Posted by AndyGee View Post
“What I don't understand is that the North American automobile manufacturers don't actually test cars towing capacity they arbitrarily set it at 0 or 1000 lbs”
We seem to see this topic come up a lot and I’m always left wondering how people actually know that to be true? Is there anyone here who works at an import manufactures testing faculty or engineering department that can confirm this?

I personally suspect that Subaru for example must do some testing or at the very least engineering calculations. If you look at the tow ratings and instructions for cars sold in Australia vs. one made in NA they have different ratings and instructions re grades. Australia does have higher tow ratings but they also have different components in the suspension systems between the cars sold in NA vs. Australia. Even if they did have the same components I have no doubt that there would be a different tow rating put on them based on the greater speed and likelihood of higher grades in NA for a longer period vs. in Australia. Would be shocked if the manufactures engineers who set the rates have not actually calculated all those factors & more I haven’t even considered into coming up with a tow rating for each county.

Automobile manufactures normally have fairly large sophisticated testing faculties & engineering departments so the suggestion that they don’t actually use them to test out their vehicles in different towing conditions seems a bit odd to me.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:48 PM   #31
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I know this oneClick image for larger version

Name:	Peel P50.jpg
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ID:	37662 can't tow a trailer.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:06 PM   #32
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I know this oneAttachment 37662 can't tow a trailer.
I know people who would be willing to try...
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Andy B View Post

It does not bother me if someone wants to tow more than the tow rating for their car. However when it is repeatedly talked about in an internet discussion group in very positive terms, that is indirectly promoting that others can do it too and someone may eventually get hurt.

As always Andy, WELL said!
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:22 PM   #34
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Hi: All... We tugged a '77 Boler with an '05 Ford Taurus Wgn. 3ltr. V6 w/ Od. trans.+ after mkt. cooler. 7 pass.w/cargo cap. 2,000lbs. tow cap. only 1250lbs. Go figure???
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:52 PM   #35
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[QUOTE=Carol H;258678]In regards to the original question as to whether or not there are truly any small cars that can legally tow a scamp the answer is yes. Subaru Outback can tow one fully loaded and be within the tow cap of the vehicle. There are Toyota RAV4 & Mazda CX models that can as well, no doubt a few others also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGee View Post
ďWhat I don't understand is that the North American automobile manufacturers don't actually test cars towing capacity they arbitrarily set it at 0 or 1000 lbsĒ
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGee View Post

We seem to see this topic come up a lot and Iím always left wondering how people actually know that to be true? Is there anyone here who works at an import manufactures testing faculty or engineering department that can confirm this?

I personally suspect that Subaru for example must do some testing or at the very least engineering calculations. If you look at the tow ratings and instructions for cars sold in Australia vs. one made in NA they have different ratings and instructions re grades. Australia does have higher tow ratings but they also have different components in the suspension systems between the cars sold in NA vs. Australia. Even if they did have the same components I have no doubt that there would be a different tow rating put on them based on the greater speed and likelihood of higher grades in NA for a longer period vs. in Australia. Would be shocked if the manufactures engineers who set the rates have not actually calculated all those factors & more I havenít even considered into coming up with a tow rating for each county.

Automobile manufactures normally have fairly large sophisticated testing faculties & engineering departments so the suggestion that they donít actually use them to test out their vehicles in different towing conditions seems a bit odd to me.
AndyGee said "North American" auto mfrs, so I think he means companies like Ford, GM, Chrysler... not the "imports" (although some of those are built here with a surprising level of U.S. content).

I suppose it's possible that they may not bother to do tow testing on their cars if they're not required to. Interesting, I never knew that Germany requires such testing. Which raises the question, don't Ford and GM sell cars there? If so, maybe test data does exist somewhere.

In answer to the original question, Chryser rated their PT Cruiser at 2000 lbs towing for at least one model year, I believe. And there probably are other small cars that have been made in the last decade that had a similar tow rating. Didn't Camry have such a rating at one time?... not sure. Good for towing a 13' anyway.

Mike... currently vacationing in Moab
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:48 PM   #36
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I may be becoming a parrot, as I keep repeating this same post, on this subject.

I'm not suggesting that European towing ratings are applicable to North America but if anyone thinks of using them, they should remember two factors:

- In Europe tow speeds are often limited to 50mph by law, although most countries allow caravans (travel trailers) up to 60mph under certain conditions - for example, in Germany those conditions include dampers on the trailer suspension.

- Those European towing ratings do not allow for North American levels of tongue weight - the maximum tongue weight may be as low as 4% of the rating. Often the North American tongue weight (say, 10-15% of a lower trailer weight) and the European tongue weight (say, 4-7% of a higher trailer weight) end up about the same.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:34 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=Mike Magee;258714
AndyGee said "North American" auto mfrs, so I think he means companies like Ford, GM, Chrysler... not the "imports" (although some of those are built here with a surprising level of U.S. content). "

Actually most so called imports such as Subaru, Toyota, Honda, Mazada are all built in the USA or Canada they do not import the cars so I consider them to be NA mfrs.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:08 PM   #38
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European Tow speeds

Trailer speed limits in Europe:

The speed limit in the UK is 60 MPH on the dual lane motorways and 50 on single lane roads.

In France 68 mph on motorways, 62 on other dual road highways, 50 mph on single lane roads.

In Germany it is 50 mph on the autobahn.

Not to disimilar to the US. I recall Ohio and California have limits of 55 mph.

Norm
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:40 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
In regards to the original question as to whether or not there are truly any small cars that can legally tow a scamp the answer is yes. Subaru Outback can tow one fully loaded and be within the tow cap of the vehicle. There are Toyota RAV4 & Mazda CX models that can as well, no doubt a few others also.
The Subaru Outback is not a small car, even if we assume it is a car and not an SUV. The Outback is a medium size car by today's standards. The Impreza is Subaru's small car and the tow rating on that is zero, it is not supposed to tow at all. In most of the model years the Outback and the Impreza use the same engine and transmission and yet the different tow ratings of zero or 2700 pounds. The Forester also uses the same engine and transmission and is rated to tow 2400 pounds. Towing safely is a lot more than if the engine and transmission can tow a load reliably. The wheel base and suspension can make a huge difference in a panic situation.

I think the Rav4 and CX would be considered SUV's.

The quote was "All three size Scamps have been designed to be towed by small cars, SUVs, mini vans, and trucks."

So Scamp is clearly including small cars that are not SUVs in the claim. They are also claiming that the small cars can tow the larger Scamp trailers.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:06 PM   #40
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another small tow vehicle Here

looks like a scion
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:12 PM   #41
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Our reason for the Honda CRV

Before we bought our first trailer, we towed the Honda CRV behind our motorhome. It's manual transmission made it a perfect tow'ed' vehicle for the motorhome and since it was in the shadow of the motorhome had hardly any affect on mileage.

When we wanted to go to Labrador we bought a 15.5 Sunline 25 year old Sunline because it was inexpensive, (Scamp) light and most important thought we could successfully tow with it. We thought we'd only use it for the 2 month trip to Labrador. It turned out we liked trailering and have spent the next four years doing it.

The Honda is our only vehicle. I recognized one real reason for towing with it. Over it's life, it will save us about $14,000 in fuel over the typical truck, more than half it's cost.

Norm
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:36 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy B
The Impreza is Subaru's small car and the tow rating on that is zero, it is not supposed to tow at all.
Except in the magical United Kingdom, where the 2.0 liter Impreza with manual transmission is rated to tow 3,520 pounds! I'm sure the US model has some tiny difference in the suspension that reduces the 3,520 pound rating to zero. Or maybe it's the color.
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