What "Small Car" can really tow a Scamp? - Page 6 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-08-2011, 11:57 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Lex M View Post
Nonsense.


The figures give the maximum tow mass allowed for cars. That 's it !
That does't not mean that European people buy trailers as heavy as the allowed tow capacity of the car.
In most European countries the maximum speed is 80 km/hr (50 mls/hr).
We travelled for 5 months in North America. We were overtaken by almost all other rigs. Our experience: in NA almost all drivers are speeding, even the lorries. Not much, but they do!
In Europe there is a towing code (advice): let the loaden mass of the trailer not exceed 85% of the mass of the towcar.
(Dutch) website for trailers: TowCar.eu - All about TowCars and Towing Caravans
Interesting that you would say that the suggestion that the European tow rating for Ford Fiesta in the UK with 1.6 liter gasoline engine of up to 3,366 pounds is over rated is nonsense and then go on to say that people do not follow that rating and instead use 85% of the tow car weight.

I went to the link you provided and entered the Fiesta with the 1.6 engine and chose a 1250 kg generic caravan as the trailer. The result that I got was:

The towing capability for the Ford Fiesta MkVI - 1.6 TDCi
with a Caravan 1250 kg:

Your Caravan is 750 kg too heavy for this car!!!!


This seems to support the suggestion that those UK tow ratings are over rated because 1250 - 750 = 500 kg (1100 pounds). 1100 pounds tow capacity is a lot less than 3366 pounds. Maybe a maximum tow rating in Europe does not mean that the car can actually tow that much of a load safely?

If different European countries disagree on the max tow rating, why is it that the US ratings are wrong to use in the United States and the European ratings are right to use in the United States?
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:07 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Andy B View Post
the European tow rating for Ford Fiesta in the UK with 1.6 liter gasoline engine of up to 3,366 pounds
Which source states that the maximum tow mass is 1530 kg?
The only figure I find is 750 kg (1653 lb).
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:45 PM   #73
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Which source states that the maximum tow mass is 1530 kg?
The only figure I find is 750 kg (1653 lb).
Towing Capacity Alfa Romeo,
I was responding to the claims in this thread in posts # 43 and #42 on pages 3 and 4. The claimed tow capacity seemed very high to me, you would have to ask the author for the source. Quoted below:

"FYI, Ford Fiesta in the UK also has super powers: With 1.6 liter gasoline engine it can tow up to 3,366 pounds (braked trailer)."

"Except in the magical United Kingdom, where the 2.0 liter Impreza with manual transmission is rated to tow 3,520 pounds!"
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:44 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Lex M
Which source states that the maximum tow mass is 1530 kg?
The only figure I find is 750 kg (1653 lb).
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp
That's my quote. I got the info from www.ford.co.uk. Some trim levels differ based on engine and transmission.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:21 PM   #75
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That's my quote. I got the info from www.ford.co.uk. Some trim levels differ based on engine and transmission.
FRom the Ford-UK brochure:

NB. These figures are not necessary equal to the ones on the car registration papers.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:21 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Lex M View Post
FRom the Ford-UK brochure:

NB. These figures are not necessary equal to the ones on the car registration papers.
Thanks... that's where I got the info. I would have referenced it in my last post, but I was posting from my phone.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:18 PM   #77
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Thanks... that's where I got the info. I would have referenced it in my last post, but I was posting from my phone.
If you got the tow weight from the Ford-UK site, then why did your previous post say the Fiesta could tow 3366 pounds but the Ford-UK chart shows maximum Fiesta tow weight for any model of 1980 pounds?
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:16 AM   #78
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Come on guys, let's not let this argument get too heated. There's a lot of information on the Internet but it's not all correct. From my perspective, if I see a Ford Fiesta towing anything bigger than a breadbox, I'm going to pull off to the side of the road and give it plenty of room to get by.

Here's an example of how we used to tow stuff. It's a Shorpy.com photo from 1956 of an old Dodge towing what has to be at least 4,000 or 5,000 pounds. How'd you like to look in the rear view and see that riding your bumper down a mountain road?
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:51 AM   #79
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Moderator's note: I've moved this topic from General Chat to Towing, because the answers to the OP's question are no longer general chat.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:56 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Terry G View Post
Come on guys, let's not let this argument get too heated. There's a lot of information on the Internet but it's not all correct. From my perspective, if I see a Ford Fiesta towing anything bigger than a breadbox, I'm going to pull off to the side of the road and give it plenty of room to get by.

Here's an example of how we used to tow stuff. It's a Shorpy.com photo from 1956 of an old Dodge towing what has to be at least 4,000 or 5,000 pounds. How'd you like to look in the rear view and see that riding your bumper down a mountain road?
Ha ha so true and thats probably using one of those bolt on bumper hitches. You know the ones that the brackets wrap around the bumper and bolt on.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:49 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Andy B View Post
If you got the tow weight from the Ford-UK site, then why did your previous post say the Fiesta could tow 3366 pounds but the Ford-UK chart shows maximum Fiesta tow weight for any model of 1980 pounds?
Oops... that's what I get for trying to read a chart on my phone. I was wrong about the tow rating for the Ford Fiesta. It is indeed embarrasingly low.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:11 AM   #82
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Thanks to the link provided by RiLex, the European tow capacity testing has been explained, at least to me. The European ratings have been used as a justification to tow more in the US than the US rated tow capacity by several posters in this thread and other threads. Look at the 5th and 6th paragraphs in the link below.

Towing Capacity Alfa Romeo,

If I am understanding the explaination correctly, the European tow capacity is the amount of trailer weight that can be started on a 12% grade by a tow vehicle.

There is also an 85% rule where the safe towing amount is listed as 85% of the unloaded weight of the tow vehicle or the manufacturer listed tow capacity whichever is less.

It is as simple as that, there is no extensive testing that checks stopping or handling ability or any other safety related things. The only thing that is tested is how much weight can be started on a 12% grade.

It should be noted that using the European 85% rule, if the car maker lists a lower tow capacity than 85%, the lower value should be followed, so even using the European standards in the US is not a reason to tow more than the US rated tow capacity.
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:16 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Garlow View Post
Taken verbatim from the Scamp website is the following statement:

"Towable by Small Cars - Our small campers are very economical; especially important with today’s high fuel costs. All three size Scamps have been designed to be towed by small cars, SUVs, mini vans, and trucks. The aerodynamic design assures high fuel efficiency and most people can tow the Scamp with a vehicle they already own

It bothers me to read in this statement that a 'small car' can tow a Scamp. Are there really any 'small cars' out there that are actually rated to tow one?
Hi, Pam!

Do you live in Europe, or are you contemplating doing some towing over there?
Or are you asking about standards relevant to the United States?

Francesca
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:39 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Andy B
Thanks to the link provided by RiLex, the European tow capacity testing has been explained, at least to me. The European ratings have been used as a justification to tow more in the US than the US rated tow capacity by several posters in this thread and other threads. Look at the 5th and 6th paragraphs in the link below.

Towing Capacity Alfa Romeo,

If I am understanding the explaination correctly, the European tow capacity is the amount of trailer weight that can be started on a 12% grade by a tow vehicle.

There is also an 85% rule where the safe towing amount is listed as 85% of the unloaded weight of the tow vehicle or the manufacturer listed tow capacity whichever is less.

It is as simple as that, there is no extensive testing that checks stopping or handling ability or any other safety related things. The only thing that is tested is how much weight can be started on a 12% grade.

It should be noted that using the European 85% rule, if the car maker lists a lower tow capacity than 85%, the lower value should be followed, so even using the European standards in the US is not a reason to tow more than the US rated tow capacity.
Andy, this does not prove that manufacturers don't do their own testing. As I've said before, many manufacturers actually do some of their tow testing here in the US because of our range of climate and terrain. Just like a lot of manufacturers test cold weather driving in Norway.

I'm not sure how universal the 85% rule is, because a VW Golf would have to weight nearly 3,900 pounds to carry it's tow rating. Maybe it is different for different countries.

It is a fact, though, that many car companies do their own tow testing, whether the Euro govt.'s require it of them or not.

How dead is this horse? None of us are changing any minds here.
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