what to tow with?

[cyndi H]

There's just way too many choices. Find what you think you'd like to drive, at the price you want to pay. Then check to see if it's capable of towing your trailer. You'll need to weigh your trailer and tongue weight, fully loaded, ready to hit the road. Then add a bit of fudge (that is add a bit more for stuff you might be adding to trailer at some later date). Now you can compare those weights with the specs of vehicle of your dreams.

It is so overwhelming. I WANT to drive a toyota tacoma but $ wise not likely (paying these #*&$#@ canadian prices and all) Plus they dont lose a lot of resale value, which is good but a hinderence now. Buying from US is better but a bit of a hassle for me now. I will figure it out. how do i weigh the trailer and tongue weight? I'm assuming a scale, but dont know how to get it there with no tow vehicle. I'm getting impatient and just feel like going for it as i would love to take it out easter long w/e. It has new tires and is ready to go, just not polished and painted yet. The card i have says it weighs 1750lbs gtw.

[cyndi H]

Hi Cindy
What size of Boler trailer do you have, and what does it list for it's weight?

sorry for late reply, i have been un boler focused for a while. I have a 13ft 1750lb gtw. I am looking for a vehicle with more focus now, starting with reading these reply posts.

[cyndi H]

Cyndi, we towed our 13ft Trillium with a 1997 Mazda B 4000 (V-6 with auto), but IF you come to our May gathering in Ft.Langley you'll see a whole slew of other choices.....

How is the mazda on fuel? What size tank? I am thinking of a b series (only b/c i cant afford the dream toyota tacoma) Why the 4000? What about the 2500 0r 3000? I am also not much of a car brain- i keep it on a need to know basis so a lot of the car terms weights specs dont mean a lot to me right off the top. All i want to do is go camping. I redecorated a full year before it came time to find a tow vehicle (design priorities, i suspect i'm not the first to do this) I will definately pop out to langley, hopefully will be able to come with trailer. Ideally it would be nice to get out easter w/e but will have to move fast if that's to happen.

[cyndi H]

Each year Trailer Life magazine posts a guide as to how much new cars are rated to tow. Nowadays it's mostly just trucks and SUVs, as many small cars aren't rated to tow anything anymore.

I think they may have a list of older cars on their website.

Many people think you should use a vehicle with a separate frame (which many trucks and SUVs have), as some unit-bodied vehicles may not be sturdy enough for the demands of travel trailer towing.

Many small trailers have a GVWR of around 3,500 lbs, so you will probably be looking for something with a tow rating of that or higher. Higher ratings are important if you will tow in the mountains.

If you are thinking of a fiver, such as the beautiful Escape 5.0, or Scamp 19, you must also consider the payload of the truck. Fifth wheel trailers usually put a larger percentage (about twice as much) of the trailer weight on the tow vehicle. This can eat into how many other things you can take with you.

Then there's the matter of wheel base. The longer the better, up to a point. Too short can be dangerous.

Many people do tow successfully with a Mazda "B" (or its clone, the Ford Ranger) but ideally you should sit down and do the math as it applies to your particular situation.

Thanks for that tip, i will check their website. The boler i have is 1750lb gtw. It looks like i have to learn more than i want to know about cars

[cyndi H]

Cyndi, first the weight of your trailer listed on the spec sheet was "dry", probably as in no cushions, no propane tank, and everything else that is removable, removed. It may not have included cupboard doors and plumbing, and may have just been the frame, running gear and shell. There's no standard for "dry weight" so unless you had inside scoop from Boler, there's no way to know exactly what was in the trailer when it was weighed.

Bigfoot now sends their trailers out the door with an "as equipped" weight on each coach. I have to applaud them for that. I don't know how long they've been doing it, but it had an "as equipped" weight on my '04 model so they've done it at least that long. I know that Scamp will tell you what they believe their "as equipped" weight is on any given unit as well.

In any event, you don't list the size of your '76 Boler, but assuming it's a 13', it won't weigh over 1,400 lbs "as equipped" so that's a fairly safe number to work with when calculating weights. If it's a Boler 17, that's a whole different ballgame. Assume that your Boler 13 will weigh 2,000 lbs loaded and ready to tow. After you're all set up, if you weigh less than that, so much the better!

Now as far as your tow vehicle, there are several numbers that are important and they are all of equal importance. If you exceed any of them, you're asking for trouble. First of course is the tow rating of the vehicle. Second is the hitch weight rating of the vehicle, and last is the combined gross vehicle weight rating which includes your tow vehicle's weight, your trailer's curb weight, and all of your stuff, passengers, liquids, and pets.

Make certain that whatever you choose to tow with has numbers of sufficient capacity all the way around to accommodate your situation and load.

Good luck!

Roger

Yes, it is a 13 ft, and it says it weighs 1750lbs. Thanks, i will consider those #'s when shopping. Where do you get the hitch weight rating? i dont recall seeing that in the specs that i have seen.

[cyndi H]

Here's an old thread with many trailer weights including a '72 Boler 13 footer:

How Much Do You Weigh

Lance reports his Boler weighs 1750 pounds in travel trim. Lots of other 13 footers. I'm assuming you have a 13 but your profile doesn't specify. And we don't know what differences in equipment there are between yours and Lance's Boler. You could very easily be at 2000 pounds as Roger's working estimate recommends.

There is no right answer to what to tow with but you'll get lots of points to consider from the group.

Thanks, i read that thread. Now i'm more overwhelmed. I hadnt thought of the water etc. Actually i havent even figured where the water goes, or if i even have a water tank. Hmmmm. All this time i was assuming that boler camping would put an end to the work of camping yet it seems like it has just transfered the work to another area. I will continue the optimism (denial?) and believe that the actual camping trip will be easy, fun, and minimal effort.

[cyndi H]

Buy a used 2005 or newer Honda Odyssey. Get lots of room to store stuff inside unlike a pickup and without the stigma of being an SUV!

Thanks, i will look into that- i love hondas. Why 05 or newer? Were there problems with the earlier models?

[cyndi H]

Cyndi,

I really have to vote for the Astro as well when it comes to a really competent lower-cost tow vehicle. I would only buy the AWD version. I had a '98 and still regret trading it. They are wonderful tow vehicles, relatively trouble-free, have lots of room, and are easy to drive. They're also well appointed and are comfortable. The AWD version is also an incredible bad-weather car. The 2WD vans are a little squirrelly in snow.

Here's a relatively low-mileage example of a decked out '02 Astro AWD conversion van for about $11k. Here's an '03 AWD standard Astro van with 83k miles also for about $11k compared to an '03 Odyssey with 70k miles for $14k. I'd guess you could probably negotiate a better price yet on the used Chevys than on the Hondas.
Roger

Thanks. i will look around. I hadnt considered a van until tonight. I am still more prone to a honda or toyota than a chevy, but i will check into the astro.

[Pete Dumbleton]

First, nothing beats scale weights of a trailer, fully loaded for the road.

But that's not always possible for a number of reasons, so the next best way to estimate, esp for the purpose of deciding on a tow vehicle or assessing a TV one already has, is to take the GVWR or GAWR from the trailer's data plate and multiply that by 1.10 (to account for estimated tongue weight). The trailer's Gxxx is usually the max that the axle(s) can carry.

That's not always good, esp in the case of early Scamps, Bolers and Casitas because they often had much lower rated axles than current models (For example, an early '80s Scamp 13' came with a 1,200 lb axle; early '90s Scamp 13' had 1,600 axle and current Scamp 13' has 2,200 lb axle).

Another way is to ask on groups like this what others find theirs to weigh (my Scamp 13' scales out at about 1,700 lbs with all my Full Time stuf, but no bath or gray/black holding tanks -- Some weigh as much as 2,200 lbs).

The worst way is to go by what the manf says the dry weight is. This has been understated by manfs in the past, and even if accurate is only the unloaded weight -- It's unlikely that an egg will be towed many miles unloaded.

With regard to tow vehicle numbers, the best place to find them is in the Owner's Manuals, many of which can be found on line for downloading. There can be significant variations between vehicles of the same model and even engine because of things like differential ratios, tow package, etc., so attention to detail can be very important here.

[Bill F.]

I am finally able to get a newer vehicle so i can get ther trailer on the road this year, but am not sure what to get. I was thinking of a mazda b series, or a car that can tow but what kind? In all honesty i really dont care what i drive as long as it can safely tow the trailer at the best gas mileage available. Any suggestions? has anyone ever heard of towing with a toyota cressida? They seem to have enough power. Oh, and the vehicle price i want to keep on the lower end, cant afford new right now. Is it true that the weight on my specs page excludes the cupboards and seats? If so, how can that be as they are built in. Thanks for all the great tips

Hi Cindy
I've towed 13' Trilliums and my current 13.5 Bigfoot with a 98 Mazda 2.5L 4 cyl. automatic. I got 24 mpg bringing the Bigfoot 5 1/2 hrs from Otawa to Alliston, Ontario, and 19 mpg in the mountains(3000' passes) of Vermont. I now have 202k on this vehicle. The 3.0 L v6 should have a little more power without much penalty on mileage, but I keep hearing stories about very poor mileage with the 4.0 L.The Ranger is going to be replaced for 2009(supposed to be moving to mid-size) so they are offering incentives right now, but resale could be an issue. My local Mazda dealer on the other hand says there are no rumours about Mazda following Fords example. This is interesting because they are built on the same assembly line. They could be trying to keep the Mazda as the only remaining small truck and moving Ford upsize to compete with Dakota, Canyon, etc. If you are going to tow in the mountains i've found that low gear in my Mazda does not hold back going down hill. I test drove an 08 4.0L Mazda automatic recently and it didn't hold in low either. I was on a very steep access road with switchbacks on Mount Ascoutney in Vermont and without the trailer I found second gear was too fast. Even with limited use of brakes I had smoke coming off the front rotors in a few minutes and had to stop for 15 minutes to let them cool off. A standard transmission would have been nice, or an automatic which allows holding in all gears. Fortunately they had signs at the bottom of the hill warning everyone not to tow a trailer up this hill. If I were going to buy either a new Ranger or Mazda I would definitely consider a 5 speed manual. Since 03 Mazda made limited slip differentials standard equipment on all v6's. I think this would be a good feature for towing.
Recently I bought an 05 Ford Freestar van to tow with. It has 201 hp versus 119 hp and the automatic holds in all gears. I havn't towed my Bigfoot with it but I did get 19 mpg towing a 4500 Trillium one weekend last summer. We find it very comfortable and since it is now discontinued(2007 was the last) they can be purchased at very reasonable cost. We payed half of new list price at 18 months old with 18k on the odometer. It was going to cost another $10K to buy a similar quad cab pickup (which I wanted) because pickups seem to be very popular right now and as a result hold their value better. Look for a vehicle with a factory tow package so you don't have to add wiring, hitch, trans cooler, etc.(consumes time and dollars doing it after you buy). Have fun deciding.
Bill

[Steven F]

I noticed one suggestion for a Honda Oddysey. The 2004 - 2007 Saturn Vue V-6 uses the Honda engine and 5-speed automatic transmission that is the same as in the Honda. We have a 2004 Vue and pull a 16 ft Scamp that is pretty well loaded with it and it works very well. So, you can buy the Honda engine and transmission for a lot less than buying a Honda.

[cyndi H]

First, nothing beats scale weights of a trailer, fully loaded for the road.

But that's not always possible for a number of reasons, so the next best way to estimate, esp for the purpose of deciding on a tow vehicle or assessing a TV one already has, is to take the GVWR or GAWR from the trailer's data plate and multiply that by 1.10 (to account for estimated tongue weight). The trailer's Gxxx is usually the max that the axle(s) can carry.

That's not always good, esp in the case of early Scamps, Bolers and Casitas because they often had much lower rated axles than current models (For example, an early '80s Scamp 13' came with a 1,200 lb axle; early '90s Scamp 13' had 1,600 axle and current Scamp 13' has 2,200 lb axle).

Another way is to ask on groups like this what others find theirs to weigh (my Scamp 13' scales out at about 1,700 lbs with all my Full Time stuf, but no bath or gray/black holding tanks -- Some weigh as much as 2,200 lbs).

The worst way is to go by what the manf says the dry weight is. This has been understated by manfs in the past, and even if accurate is only the unloaded weight -- It's unlikely that an egg will be towed many miles unloaded.

With regard to tow vehicle numbers, the best place to find them is in the Owner's Manuals, many of which can be found on line for downloading. There can be significant variations between vehicles of the same model and even engine because of things like differential ratios, tow package, etc., so attention to detail can be very important here.

Thanks, where is that plate? Is it on the door? I will look up the manuals as well

[cyndi H]

Hi Cindy
I've towed 13' Trilliums and my current 13.5 Bigfoot with a 98 Mazda 2.5L 4 cyl. automatic. I got 24 mpg bringing the Bigfoot 5 1/2 hrs from Otawa to Alliston, Ontario, and 19 mpg in the mountains(3000' passes) of Vermont. I now have 202k on this vehicle. The 3.0 L v6 should have a little more power without much penalty on mileage, but I keep hearing stories about very poor mileage with the 4.0 L.The Ranger is going to be replaced for 2009(supposed to be moving to mid-size) so they are offering incentives right now, but resale could be an issue. My local Mazda dealer on the other hand says there are no rumours about Mazda following Fords example. This is interesting because they are built on the same assembly line. They could be trying to keep the Mazda as the only remaining small truck and moving Ford upsize to compete with Dakota, Canyon, etc. If you are going to tow in the mountains i've found that low gear in my Mazda does not hold back going down hill. I test drove an 08 4.0L Mazda automatic recently and it didn't hold in low either. I was on a very steep access road with switchbacks on Mount Ascoutney in Vermont and without the trailer I found second gear was too fast. Even with limited use of brakes I had smoke coming off the front rotors in a few minutes and had to stop for 15 minutes to let them cool off. A standard transmission would have been nice, or an automatic which allows holding in all gears. Fortunately they had signs at the bottom of the hill warning everyone not to tow a trailer up this hill. If I were going to buy either a new Ranger or Mazda I would definitely consider a 5 speed manual. Since 03 Mazda made limited slip differentials standard equipment on all v6's. I think this would be a good feature for towing.
Recently I bought an 05 Ford Freestar van to tow with. It has 201 hp versus 119 hp and the automatic holds in all gears. I havn't towed my Bigfoot with it but I did get 19 mpg towing a 4500 Trillium one weekend last summer. We find it very comfortable and since it is now discontinued(2007 was the last) they can be purchased at very reasonable cost. We payed half of new list price at 18 months old with 18k on the odometer. It was going to cost another $10K to buy a similar quad cab pickup (which I wanted) because pickups seem to be very popular right now and as a result hold their value better. Look for a vehicle with a factory tow package so you don't have to add wiring, hitch, trans cooler, etc.(consumes time and dollars doing it after you buy). Have fun deciding.
Bill

Thanks for that. It seems that vans are looking more appealing, cheaper than trucks. I will have to read the manuals and check out the trailer info a little more. I hate car shopping, i dont want to do it

[cyndi H]

I noticed one suggestion for a Honda Oddysey. The 2004 - 2007 Saturn Vue V-6 uses the Honda engine and 5-speed automatic transmission that is the same as in the Honda. We have a 2004 Vue and pull a 16 ft Scamp that is pretty well loaded with it and it works very well. So, you can buy the Honda engine and transmission for a lot less than buying a Honda.

Thanks, that is good to know. I'll have to look into that as well. How many mpg does it get and what is the tank size? (I could look it up, but you may know off the top of your head) I will have to look it up anyway as i cant picture what a vue looks like. Thanks

[Pete Dumbleton]

Thanks, where is that plate? Is it on the door? I will look up the manuals as well

On Scamps, the plate is a metallic sticker inside the A-frame a small distance behind the coupler. Usually more durable is the axle plate on the axle beam, put there by the axle manf (Dexter or Al-Ko) with the axle capacity.

Early 80s Scamps had 1,200 lbs, early 90s had 1,600 and current have 2,200 lbs.

[Coach George Jessup]

A UNIMOG

My 5er will be towed by the orange one (once Im completed the conversion) and it will be on 20" tires. It wont be Orange. It will be the colors of Desert Camo though it wont be in a Camo pattern.

[Pete Dumbleton]

Here's one all rigged out as a camper in Alaska.






Doesn't have to worry about beating up a trailer or pulling one out of the muck or ditch, but gets his exercise climbing in and out.

It has Washington registration.

[Steven F]

Thanks, that is good to know. I'll have to look into that as well. How many mpg does it get and what is the tank size? (I could look it up, but you may know off the top of your head) I will have to look it up anyway as i cant picture what a vue looks like. Thanks

Cyndi. Sorry to take so long to respond. On the highway traveling 55-60 mph mileage runs 13-15 mpg depending on terrain, wind direction. Without the trailer we get 28-29 mpg traveling at 55-65 mph. Local driving, mix highway and town, 20-23 mpg, again depending on how we drive. We are very satisfied with its performance pulling the Scamp. The Honda engine is rated at 250-hp. It was the higest rated hp of any of the small SUV type vehicles. Ours is front wheel drive. It is available with all wheel drive too.

[Coach George Jessup]

Here's one all rigged out as a camper in Alaska.

Attachment 11987

...It has Washington registration.

There are several in Washington. It and CA have the largest collection of Mogs. Doc J lives in alaska but he has the newest version and sold his like this pic (1300L) and the other ones he had.

[William Schumacher]

We had a 2005 Saturn Vue with the Honda engine. We had problems with it pulling our 16' Scamp. Our Scamp has the oak interior which adds more weight. Saturn told me that I couldn't pull that much weight, so now we have a Chev Trailblazer, which works much better. Gets the same 12 mpg as the Vue. I miss the 28 mpg with the Saturn when we didn't pull the trailer, but we do not overheat with the Chev. Since the Chev is made to tow.