what to tow with?

[Steven F]

We had a 2005 Saturn Vue with the Honda engine. We had problems with it pulling our 16' Scamp. Our Scamp has the oak interior which adds more weight. Saturn told me that I couldn't pull that much weight, so now we have a Chev Trailblazer, which works much better. Gets the same 12 mpg as the Vue. I miss the 28 mpg with the Saturn when we didn't pull the trailer, but we do not overheat with the Chev. Since the Chev is made to tow.

I didn't mention that I did have a transmission cooler installed on our 2004 Vue. Perhaps that has helped it not to overheat.

[cyndi H]

I didn't mention that I did have a transmission cooler installed on our 2004 Vue. Perhaps that has helped it not to overheat.

thanks for the info. I think i'm leaning towards a toyota avalon now but i need to verify that a tow package can be added w/o any difficulty. Ity seems comparable to the sienna in towing capacity but with better mileage and the fact that i wont have to drive a big honkin van or SUV Has anyone ever towed with an avalon? Has anyone ever heard of anything good/bad about towing with a sedan type (specifically the avalon) Thanks for all the help

[Chester Taje]

Read this site. Tow capacity 1000lbs.
http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WW...v104040e%2ehtml

[Pete Dumbleton]

thanks for the info. I think i'm leaning towards a toyota avalon now but i need to verify that a tow package can be added w/o any difficulty. Ity seems comparable to the sienna in towing capacity but with better mileage and the fact that i wont have to drive a big honkin van or SUV Has anyone ever towed with an avalon? Has anyone ever heard of anything good/bad about towing with a sedan type (specifically the avalon) Thanks for all the help

Sometimes a tow package can't be added aftermarket -- Depends on what's in the tow package beyond a receiver and a transmission cooler. Might be transmission or differential gearing, for example.

[Roger H]

Sometimes a tow package can't be added aftermarket -- Depends on what's in the tow package beyond a receiver and a transmission cooler. Might be transmission or differential gearing, for example.

I was flirting with the Honda Ridgeline this weekend. It won't work for me 'cause apparently with the full-time 4WD they can't be towed behind a motorhome, which is one of the duties of my Tundra. I was looking at it for several reasons; first it's a low-emissions vehicle which my Tundra fails miserably at. Second, it's a true four-door, and third they have a cabin air filter which I've found to be amazingly useful here in farm country in our Civic.

Anyway, the tow package comes on all of the Ridgelines (except for the hitch which is stock on the RTX) and consists of a tranny cooler, heavy-duty cooling, and a power steering fluid cooler. They are also pre-wired. I thought the power-steering cooler was an interesting item I'd not considered would be part of a towing package.

Roger

[cyndi H]

Read this site. Tow capacity 1000lbs.
http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WW...v104040e%2ehtml

I dont get this http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WW...%2fintro%2ehtml (i hope that comes out as a link) Does this mean that the avalon can tow? I couldnt find any tow rating on that site, but it did list the types of hitches (not that means anything to me) on msn it said the avalon had a standard tow rating of 2000lbs, and a little higher max. Of course i was looking at an earlier year, maybe that had something to do with it.

[Chester Taje]

I followed your link and it still says 1000lb tow rating.
Follow link and go to Capacities and it shows it there.

[Chester Taje]

S = Standard O = Option - = Not Available
XLS

MECHANICAL
Engine 3.5 Litre Engine, 6-Cylinder, Aluminum Alloy Block, DOHC, Dual VVT-i Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence on both Intake and Exhaust Cams, Electronic Throttle Control System with Intelligence (ETCS-i), Acoustic Control Induction System (ACIS), Tier 2 Bin 5 Emissions Rating, Stainless Steel Exhaust System
Compression Ratio 10.8:1
Horsepower hp (kW) 268 (200) @ 6,200 rpm
Torque lb.ft. (N.m.) 248 (336) @ 4,700 rpm
Suspension Front: Macpherson Gas Struts, Coil Springs, Stabilizer Bar
Rear: Macpherson Gas Struts, Multi-link Rear Control Arms, Coil Springs, Stabilizer Bar
Drivetrain Front Wheel Drive, Vehicle Stability Control (VSC), Traction Control (TRAC)
Transmission 6-Speed, Automatic, Super Electronically Controlled Transmission (Super ECT), Sequential Multi-Mode Shifter, Lock Up Torque Converter, Transmission Cooler
Brakes Antilock Braking System (ABS), Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist (BA), Front Ventilated Disc Brakes, Rear Discs
Steering Power Steering
Tires P215/55R17 Tires, Full Size Spare Tire with Alloy Wheel




XLS

DIMENSIONS mm (in.)
Length 5,020 (197.6)
Width 1,850 (72.8)
Height 1,470 (57.9)
Wheelbase 2,820 (111.0)
Tread: Front / Rear 1,580 (62.2) / 1,565 (61.6)
Ground Clearance 135 (5.3)
Headroom: Front / Rear 986 (38.8) / 953 (37.5)
Legroom: Front / Rear 1,049 (41.3) / 1,037 (40.8)
Shoulder Room: Front / Rear 1,509.8 (59.4) / 1,479.2 (58.2)




XLS

CAPACITY
Gross Vehicle Weight kg (lbs) 2,070 (4,565)
Curb Weight kg (lbs) 1,618 (3,567)
Seating Capacity 5
Towing Capacity kg (lbs) 454 (1,000)
Cargo Capacity m3 (cu.ft.) .408 (14.4)
Coefficient of Drag (cd.) 0.291
Fuel Capacity litres (gal) 70 (15.4)
Fuel Consumption Rating*
City/Highway L /100 km (mpg) 10.7 (27) / 7.0 (40)
* These estimates are based on the Government of Canada's approved criteria and testing methods. The actual fuel consumption of this vehicle may vary. Refer to the Government of Canada publication EnerGuide Fuel Consumption Guide..





This is what I read.

[Roger H]

I don't even see a towing package or tow capacity offered for the '08 Avalon on the US Toyota site.

I'd pass on the Avalon as a tow vehicle.

Roger

[cyndi H]

S = Standard O = Option - = Not Available
XLS


CAPACITY
Gross Vehicle Weight kg (lbs) 2,070 (4,565)
Curb Weight kg (lbs) 1,618 (3,567)
Seating Capacity 5
Towing Capacity kg (lbs) 454 (1,000)
Cargo Capacity m3 (cu.ft.) .408 (14.4)
Coefficient of Drag (cd.) 0.291
Fuel Capacity litres (gal) 70 (15.4)
Fuel Consumption Rating*
City/Highway L /100 km (mpg) 10.7 (27) / 7.0 (40)
* These estimates are based on the Government of Canada's approved criteria and testing methods. The actual fuel consumption of this vehicle may vary. Refer to the Government of Canada publication EnerGuide Fuel Consumption Guide..





This is what I read.

Wow! Everyone is such a great source of info. Thanks. I think i will phone toyota b/c the site i have been researching cars on says the 99 has a 2000lb standard tow capacity. If it is that incorrect that would be a real drag b/c then i will have to start checking specs all over again b/c the site obviously has inaccurate info All i want is to tow without driving some huge gas guzzler. Oh, and not have to pay a fortune either. Maybe i'm in denial. If so it will eventually break and maybe then i'll buy a hummer. (no offence to any hummer owners)

[Pete Dumbleton]

Anyway, the tow package comes on all of the Ridgelines (except for the hitch which is stock on the RTX) and consists of a tranny cooler, heavy-duty cooling, and a power steering fluid cooler. They are also pre-wired. I thought the power-steering cooler was an interesting item I'd not considered would be part of a towing package.

My 98 Ranger has a towing package and a power steering cooler, which I presume doesn't come on standard truck. I also have a 'camper' relay in system that deals with power to the trailer lights so the truck light power is constant, plus there was a place in wiring to connect a Flat-4 connector with no fuss.

Tow package may also include suspension upgrades, as well as the differential ratio change. And place in cab harness to plug in a brake control. Some bigger trucks even come with a brake control installed and the brake wire and charging wire already connected to a 7-pin connector.

Depends on manf and I've found it difficult to find out what's actually in a tow package for a particular vehicle.

[Booker B.]

As a wise member on this forum said, choose your tow vehicle, then choose your trailer.

We currently have a 1991 Toyota 4x4 extended cab with 330,000km and still going strong. However, it's got serious Toy cancer (rust) and I don't think it's worth putting a lot of money into it tp bondo it together. So when we started looking at getting a trailer I first examined what I needed for a future vehicle - good on gas, 4x4 for our somewhat snowy winters and a steep driveway, 4 doors so the kids don't battle getting out, reasonable cargo room.

What my wife and I would REALLY like is a 2001-2004 crew cab Toyota 4x4 but the gas consumption is way too high for us with the coming gas crunch. So I decided to look at small SUV's and cars. No 4cylinder SUV's that I could find would pull more then 1000-1500lbs. However, one vehicle that kept coming up was Subaru Outback's or Foresters. Reasonable on Gas, will pull 2400lbs and a number of members on this Forum pulling 13-15 foot trailers with them. Every friend that has one rave like it's a Toyota. They are expensive so we are looking for a 2003-2004 off lease. Now that we have picked a car we now know that a 13 foot trailer is for us.... if I could just get hold of one =)

[Chester Taje]

When i had my Rav4 and 13ft Trill, towing was not to bad. When Tow Vehical is loaded with 2 Adults and a couple of kids, things change. My Trill weighted 1950lbs loaded for camping. That included water. I had roughly 1500lbs to play with. I , myself like a good margin of error. My extra tow capacity was needed more than once. I think its better to have more tow capacity than be on the boarder line.
My tow capacity was 3500lbs with Rav 4.

[cyndi H]

As a wise member on this forum said, choose your tow vehicle, then choose your trailer.

We currently have a 1991 Toyota 4x4 extended cab with 330,000km and still going strong. However, it's got serious Toy cancer (rust) and I don't think it's worth putting a lot of money into it tp bondo it together. So when we started looking at getting a trailer I first examined what I needed for a future vehicle - good on gas, 4x4 for our somewhat snowy winters and a steep driveway, 4 doors so the kids don't battle getting out, reasonable cargo room.

What my wife and I would REALLY like is a 2001-2004 crew cab Toyota 4x4 but the gas consumption is way too high for us with the coming gas crunch. So I decided to look at small SUV's and cars. No 4cylinder SUV's that I could find would pull more then 1000-1500lbs. However, one vehicle that kept coming up was Subaru Outback's or Foresters. Reasonable on Gas, will pull 2400lbs and a number of members on this Forum pulling 13-15 foot trailers with them. Every friend that has one rave like it's a Toyota. They are expensive so we are looking for a 2003-2004 off lease. Now that we have picked a car we now know that a 13 foot trailer is for us.... if I could just get hold of one =)

I thought I saw a few for sale on the canadian (at least i think it's a canadian) boler site. I cant be positive though b/c i only saw out of the corner of my eye b/c i'm not shopping for one. Hope it helps http://www.geocities.com/bolerama/

[Booker B.]

Thanks Cyndi!

Getting Geeky: What I have done (and which works quite well) is search for trillium / boler on the 4 big sites (craigslist, usedeverywhere, kijiji and buysell.com) in British Columbia using different locations near to me (Nanaimo, Victoria, Vancouver). I opened each search in a tab in Firefox (IE7 or Opera will do this too). I then book marked all the tabs into one tab folder. Now all I need to do is open the one tab folder and all the sites are searched for each location and ready for quick perusal. I was going to write some code to run a search nightly on these sites and email the results but as I get older that kind of stuff becomes less fun to program ... are my days as a programmer numbered I wonder=(

There are 2 Trilliums in Vancouver I am investigating this week. Decided on a Trillium for sure due to the height inside, I can just stand barefooted in one, the Boler and Scamp are knee benders for me.

Back onto the topic: Chester, what year Rav4 did you have. I know the new 2007 V6 models will pull that much but I didn't think the 4cyl's did. I like the Rav4's but looking at my vehicle research I realize I just checked the CRV's for pull, not the Rav4's.

[Chester Taje]

Hi Booker
My Rav4 was a 2007---V6----3500lb tow rating.

[steven jones]

what exactly are the factors that go into determining a vehicle's towing capacity...?
FWD/RWD/AWD, engine horsepower, torque, vehicle weight, chassis design...?
--- steven

[Chester Taje]

what exactly are the factors that go into determining a vehicle's towing capacity...?
FWD/RWD/AWD, engine horsepower, torque, vehicle weight, chassis design...?
--- steven

This is a start. It is a quote


Why are some vehicles rated to tow 6000 pounds, some much more, and some vehicles only 1000 pounds capacity? Contrary to what most owners believe, it has very little to do with maximum horsepower.

Motor vehicles have more than enough power to pull a trailer. Even the smallest engines can do it if the driver uses low gear. I have even seen a motorcycle tow a tandem axle U-haul trailer, which is a very foolish thing to attempt.

Some drivers think that the transmission determines how much a vehicle can tow. Manual transmissions are sometimes thought to be better than automatic transmissions, because the torque converter in an automatic transmission produces a lot of heat when it is working. Lock-up converters are used in virtually every automatic transmission these days, so as long as the converter is locked, it doesn't produce any more heat than would be generated in a manual transmission. Therefore either will work for towing.

So what does determine how much a vehicle can tow? I had the opportunity to talk with a couple of Dodge truck engineers while road testing the Dodge Dakota pickup. This vehicle, even when equipped with a V6 engine, has a towing capacity that matches many full size pickups. The engineers tell me that they base towing capacity on the ability of the vehicle to tow a load from a stop up an incline that a driver might expect to find on a steep mountain road. In other words, it isn't horsepower that is needed - it is low r.p.m. torque.

A seven per cent grade is about the maximum grade you will find on most major highways anywhere in North America. For Dodge, the maximum load a vehicle can get moving up that grade determines the towing capacity. Automatic transmissions are better able to get a heavy load moving due to the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter. Therefore, if a vehicle is only offered with an automatic transmission, it may have a higher towing capacity than one that also has a standard transmission available.

There are many factors that determine how much low r.p.m. torque is put to the ground. Drive axle gearing is often different on vehicles that tow: installing a 4.10 to 1 axle ratio instead of a 3.70 to 1 ratio increases torque to the wheels by about 10 per cent. Changing tire sizes also makes a difference. Larger diameter tires reduce torque, while smaller diameter tires will increase torque. Most drivers don't change axle gear ratios or tire sizes when towing. Instead, they change the transmission gear they drive in.

Both manual and automatic transmissions are built with overdrive gear ratios in their top gear, and sometimes in the top two gears. An overdrive gear ratio turns the driveshaft faster than the engine crankshaft. With engine r.p.m. lower, fuel economy is usually better and engine noise and wear are lower. However, an overdrive transmission gear ratio reduces torque output to the wheels. Using a lower gear is usually recommended for towing.

With five or six-speed automatics or manual transmissions, using fourth gear is often recommended for towing heavier trailers. With four-speed automatics, towing in third gear works better. Using a lower gear increases torque to the wheels and reduces the load on the engine. With the engine not working as hard, the driver can apply less throttle. Even though engine r.p.m. will be higher, it will typically use less fuel than one that is under constant load.

Tow/Haul mode can be selected on many current pickups and SUV's with automatic transmissions. This mode modifies transmission oil pressures and shift speeds so the vehicle uses the lower gears more. On some vehicles, it also modifies transmission shifting so it remains in lower gears on downhill grades allowing engine braking to help the wheel brakes.

Once the engineers have determined what transmission gear ratios, axle ratios, tire sizes and engines they are using, they can determine the towing capacity. Now they match wheel bearing capacity, axle shaft strength, radiator cooling capacity, braking capability and even frame design and strength to the towing capacity. As you can see, there are many parts of a vehicle that contribute to the towing capacity. Just adding a bigger trailer hitch isn't enough to make it capable of towing a heavier trailer, even though you may have the power to pull it.

[Pete Dumbleton]

Good summary Ches!

I recall reading an article about Dodge testing the big pickups (and maybe the little ones) on a paved hill they have in Arizona. It's pretty steep, but I don't recall the grade. One of their tests is to pull a load of what they think the capacity is part way up the hill, stop it and then get it going again. Too much slippage or inadequate clutch spring on manual trans or too much heat on auto trans and they go back to drawing board or lower rating.

Part of the rating is basic to the vehicle, wheelbase, rear overhang, weight distribution between axles, etc.

If it was just horsepower and fuel economy, we'd see a lot more RVs being pulled by big motorcycles...

[Chester Taje]

Hey Pete---I find something good once in a while