what to tow with?

[steven jones]

^^^
thanks, good info...
looks like i'll be building a custom transmission...
--- steven

[CD Smith]

That Dodge test reminds the test they use for the M-1 Tank.

They drive it up a 30 degree incline, stop, then start up the incline again, stop, and drive down the incline. That's only half the test. They then back it up the 30 degree incline, stop, then start up the incline again, stop, and drive down the incline.

All this with an automatic, electronic controlled transmission. Of course they have HP to spare and a huge transmission cooler.

[steven jones]

after reading Pete's posting in the Kia thread about GVWR's, GCWR's, GAWR's, WDH's & other acronyms, i thought i'd ask y'all's opinions on my TV/TT combo...
first, i'm rebuilding my 13' Burro, & i'll be doing everything i can to keep the weight down, so it'll have a loaded weight under 1400 lbs...
the tow vehicle is my '92 Toyota Tercel 2dr., which will be modified for autocross racing... while i had very little trouble towing the "gutted" trailer with the stock motor/tranny/chassis, the Tercel isn't really rated to tow much more than a utility trailer... i'm hoping that the modified version will be much more capable... a Tercel isn't really designed to climb Pike's Peak, but i plan to do it anyway...
the Tercel starts out at 2100 lbs... racing modifications will include a 6-point roll cage, chassis seam-welding, rollcage to hitch reinforcement, upgraded brakes, custom transmission gearing w/helical LSD, heavy-duty clutch, front & rear swaybars, fully adjustable coilover suspension, & somewhere between 150-250hp... fully modified, it'll be about 2300+lbs, empty...
the trailer will have brakes, & an adjustable-length tongue... i won't be towing faster than 55-60mph...am i being over-confident about the TV...? the old Burro catalog shows it being towed by a compact 70's car that i'd compare to a Toyota Corolla...
--- steven

[Pete Dumbleton]

I'm not going to touch the official tow rating, presuming one exists...

Clearly you are going to have more HP (hopefully not at screaming RPM), better clutch and beefy suspension. You might have to give some thought to the differential ratio, esp if first gear is high.

Can't do much about wheelbase, but mount the hitch so the ball is as far forward as possible. Get some extra weight up front, tire on top or something.

Extended tongue is a good thing; keep weight off trailer rear.

[steven jones]

thanks...
i've read that tow capacity is 1000-1500lbs, depending on the source... the previous generation tercel is rated at 1500lbs... the car had the hitch on it when i got it, & the previous owner had a 10ft utility trailer he used to haul firewood... he claimed he had no problems...
the engine will be tuned for low end torque, with good power before 3500rpms...
i have a wide choice of gearing, & will be cryo-treating the gears, differential, & axles for added strength...
during towing the car will have ~200lbs of tires/tools/parts in it, & room for driver/navigator...
i think my biggest issue will be trying to keep the tongue weight down... there won't be propane tanks, but it will have a plastic utility box on the front...
thanks again for your help... i'll figure this out better when i get further down the road on the project...
--- steven

[Mikeny]

I had very good results towing a 13 ft Scamp with a Subaru Forester. No problems with power even in the Adirondacks. Handling was excellent. On several trips the car averaged 20mpg towing the Scamp. Unfortunately the Forester was totaled in a rear end collision. We replaced it with a Subaru Outback which will be our new tow vehicle. Hope to get it out for the maiden trip soon, tow hitch and brake controller are on order.

[Booker B.]

Hi Mike,

Can I ask why are you choosing an Outback over the Forester for a replacement? We are looking at both models right now and I asking around to see what people prefer.

Thanks!
Booker

[Mikeny]

Booker
My wife uses the Subaru to commute to work, about 35 miles each way. We drove both the 2008 Forester and the Outback. It was a toss up. She liked the Outback a bit more due to the fact that the seats and the ride felt a bit more comfortable. I could definately tell the difference, the Forester felt more like my pickup (Ford Ranger) Prices were similiar, gas mileage is similiar. I think the Outback even has a slighlty higher tow rating that the Forester. It was also nice to get something a bit different after driving the Forester for about 4 years. We had an Imprezia before that for about 7-8 yrs (150,000 trouble free miles)
Have not towed with the Outback yet, but I have heard very good things about them.

Good luck in your choice, I don't think you can go wrong either way.

[Dean & Mary]

We own a Subaru Outback for commuting to work. We have never towed with it and get a little better than 32 mpg on mixed driving.
The Outback and Forester are built on the same platform. They change the Outback model every 5 years, with the last time in 2005. I feel the changes in 2005 model year makes looking at 2005 or newer worthwhile.

[Don Jarrell]

I own a 97 Outback but have not towed with it. I enjoy it because of its combination of the good mileage, AWD, ground clearance, reasonable price and smooth ride. I am considering getting a small trailer, but I don't think I would use the Outback as TV for anything larger than a 13 footer. It is rated for 2,700 lbs, and the Forester for 2,400 lbs.

As my Outback is getting nearer to replacement (170,000 miles), I have been reserching a variety of alternatives with better towing capacity, but I haven't found the right combination yet.

[Mike Montville]

I own a 97 Outback but have not towed with it. I enjoy it because of its combination of the good mileage, AWD, ground clearance, reasonable price and smooth ride. I am considering getting a small trailer, but I don't think I would use the Outback as TV for anything larger than a 13 footer. It is rated for 2,700 lbs, and the Forester for 2,400 lbs.

As my Outback is getting nearer to replacement (170,000 miles), I have been reserching a variety of alternatives with better towing capacity, but I haven't found the right combination yet.

Here's a good setup, Very fuel efficient!!

[Dawn SW]

Great forum! correspondence with members has been very positive. Thanks so much for all your help. And thanks to some members of another group, RVing Women, I have now located a 16' Casita near where I am planning to be for the summer (NW USA) so I am leaving to stopover in N. CA with my family and pick up the trailer. I now find that I need to replace my little 4 cyl truck for a tow vehicle more reliable and adequate for this purpose.

Locally I have found a Chevy Silverado xtend cab, with camper shell, 1998 w 73,000 miles. V8 engine & full towing package, price seems pretty reasonable and it suits my personal comfort needs + 2 dogs on board.

Also looked at 2001 Toyota Tacoma V6 w/ ext cab & extra suspension, mileage 44K but no camper shell & no towing package....it's not very comfortable for me climbing in and out etc.

Any comments welcome on these two options.

But if I don't take them, I would be shopping (en route) for either a little larger (V6) truck with a camper shell, trying for low mileage and good gas mileage as I keep my vehicles for as long as possible. Possible: ROO with a tow package that is adequate, or something similar. Any suggestions welcome.

[Donna D.]

You can purchase a camper shell, used for real cheap. Don't make that the deal breaker.

You'd get much better fuel economy with the Tacoma V6 and it will have adequate power.

[Roger H]

And the odds are that the Tacoma will have better resale and the smaller truck will be more in demand when you're ready to trade.

Roger

[John Perry]

But if I don't take them, I would be shopping (en route) for either a little larger (V6) truck with a camper shell, trying for low mileage and good gas mileage as I keep my vehicles for as long as possible. Possible: ROO with a tow package that is adequate, or something similar. Any suggestions welcome.

Hi Dawn, as one who has owned Toyotas for years I can tell you there is one problem that some Toyota owners have. They get tired of their Toyota and want something newer before there is any real reason to get rid of it.
My oldest grandson is still driving a 1976 Toyota that I gave him. It is still going on the original engine and uses no oil. It has over 450000 miles on it. I sold my 1991 Toyota PU to a friend and it now has over 400000 miles on it. The only money that has ever been spent on these 2 vehicles is for routine maintenance items.
There is not a more reliable or better built vehicle on the market today or one that will give you a better resale value than Toyota.
If you keep your vehicles for a long time the Toyota is the one for you.

Good luck,
John

PS If fuel prices keep going up you will not be able to give a V-8 away
JP

[cyndi H]

Try the Astro Cargo Van you can't beat that 5000 lb. towing capacity!!!

I put a bed in the back of the van that is removable..underneath go the totes for extra STUFF!! Great place for the kids or dogs to sleep!!

Thanks for all the tips but I am pretty sure i am now stuck with a dodge caravan. I went to an auction and missed out on the truck i wanted, but got my second 'choice' It's now buy, or go on the bad bidder list (which i didnt get a lesson on, oh well live and learn) At least it will tow for a few years and it was relatively inexpensive. Hopefully i can get to my first boler campout now, and the car search is over for now. Too bad, i really wanted the truck. Now i can get ready for camping I think i need a grey water tank now. I fixed the roof vent, washed it, and will hopefully wax this week.

[Mark J]

I had very good results towing a 13 ft Scamp with a Subaru Forester. No problems with power even in the Adirondacks. Handling was excellent. On several trips the car averaged 20mpg towing the Scamp. Unfortunately the Forester was totaled in a rear end collision. We replaced it with a Subaru Outback which will be our new tow vehicle. Hope to get it out for the maiden trip soon, tow hitch and brake controller are on order.

I recently purchased a 13" scamp and would like to tow it with a 03 Forester. Some have suggested I add a tranmission cooler since it is an automatic but I am reluctant to do so because we live in such a cold climate. (I think it will take longer for the car to warm up in -20 degree days; it is a cold car - slow to warm up in the winter.) Did you have a transmission cooler/automatic?

[Pete Dumbleton]

The auxiliary transmission cooler goes between the transmission and the radiator (there is usually a primary transmission cooler in the radiator), on the output (hot fluid) side of the transmission. That means that the radiator will put the fluid at the correct operating temperature if it needs to be heated.

[Cam A]

I recently purchased a 13" scamp and would like to tow it with a 03 Forester. Some have suggested I add a tranmission cooler since it is an automatic but I am reluctant to do so because we live in such a cold climate. (I think it will take longer for the car to warm up in -20 degree days; it is a cold car - slow to warm up in the winter.) Did you have a transmission cooler/automatic?

I tow my Surfside 14, which is heavier than your Scamp, without a transmission cooler on my 98 Forester. Trans overheat light has never come on. The manufacturer, Subaru, does not require a cooler for towing. If you do install a trans cooler, I've heard that better ones have a bypass to ensure trans fluid circulation when the fluid is thick (-40 mornings)