Your Thoughts on a 2016 Tow Vehicle?

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by Raz

...At 152 HP and 171 ft-lbs of torque, the 4 cylinder has less capability than most small SUVs. And having to work harder, the mileage numbers will be disappointing The only advantage is that if you are looking for an inexpensive bare bones truck( ie. the S model) most have the I 4.

Thanks Raz for the information on the Nissan 6 cylinder. I go back and forth, between the benefits of the I4 and 6 cyl Frontier. And you are right on with gas mileage. My experience with a YJ wrangler I4, pulled the same amount as a 6 cyl - also worked harder and got the same fuel mileage.

For me (looking at the Scamp 13) the Frontier extended cab S (I4) has a great low price. With my first Nissan truck and Jeep Wrangler, towing was not continual. So though my experience with I4's and towing is a good one - wondering how extended trips (or full time rving) would be.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by rdickens

Rather than looking at the number of cylinders or the horsepower of a potential tow vehicle,
I would suggest looking at the torque of the engine at towing RPMs.
For towing, what's more important, horsepower or torque? | HowStuffWorks

Then maybe look at tow weight ratings, brand reliability, and cost.

Diesels and turbocharged engines deliver high torque at low RPMs.

As always, YMMV. 😉

Ray


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

Do you have a source for vehicle torque curves. There was s time when manufacturers would publish such information. The best I find today is one point on the curve, typically the maximum. For example my old Subaru lists 174 ft-lbs @4100 rpm while the 4 cylinder Frontier lists 171 ft-lbs @ 4400 rpm. Raz

[Raz]

Originally Posted by BBQdave

Thanks Raz for the information on the Nissan 6 cylinder. I go back and forth, between the benefits of the I4 and 6 cyl Frontier. And you are right on with gas mileage. My experience with a YJ wrangler I4, pulled the same amount as a 6 cyl - also worked harder and got the same fuel mileage.

For me (looking at the Scamp 13) the Frontier extended cab S (I4) has a great low price. With my first Nissan truck and Jeep Wrangler, towing was not continual. So though my experience with I4's and towing is a good one - wondering how extended trips (or full time rving) would be.

I have a 2012 crew cab S with the V6 and automatic. A left over I bought it in December with a substantial discount. It has been flawless, no issues what so ever. I just finished the 30k service. They have been making this model since 2005, so most of the bugs have been worked out. I thought about replacing it with a Ridgeline but for now I'm going to stick with the Frontier.

[rdickens]

For the torque curves, I just searched the Internet a bit.

I was going to ask Ford, but I found the info for my engine here:
http://m.wardsauto.com/technology/st...e-weight-class

Good luck in your searches! ☺

Ray

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Fiberglass RV mobile app

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

We have checked the SUSA off our bucket list .. We are going to spend our time traveling in Canada and the New England states . The climate is more moderate and they speak a language that we understand.

What language is that?

[Raz]

Originally Posted by rdickens

For the torque curves, I just searched the Internet a bit.

I was going to ask Ford, but I found the info for my engine here:
Stout EcoBoost I-4 Plays Well Above Weight Class | Technology content from WardsAuto

Good luck in your searches! ☺

Ray

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Fiberglass RV mobile app

Thanks.

[Bruce H]

Sherri,

You can go to Ford's web site and find the "build a truck" section and "build" your new truck, car, etc. Color, engine size, 2wd, etc. It will then give you a sticker price for a vehicle set up like you want it. A little more internet research and you should be able to estimate the price you can buy one for. On your budget you will want to pass on the expensive options. Then it is a matter of finding one like it at a dealership. Good luck on the trailer tow package.

Or you can go to a dealer and order one. It takes six weeks or so to get it. GET YOUR FINANCING APPROVED FROM YOUR BANK OR CREDIT UNION BEFORE YOU GO SHOPPING. You do not want to be negotiating financing with a car dealer at the same time you are negotiating the price of a vehicle.

The way I do it is print out my "build" with the options I want and personally go to about four different dealers and ask what it would cost to order this? (Take a fresh printout to the next dealer, not your notes from the previous dealer) Absolutely don't say anything about being at another dealership or what any other dealers have told you. But do tell them that you WILL (near future) need to shop around. You will be amazed at the price variation you will get for the exact same vehicle. They will take notes on the quote they give you. Also many dealerships will spring a $500 title or paperwork fee on you in addition to the agreed upon price. Ask about extra fees ahead of time. It does not matter to you how they do their bookkeeping. What you want to know is the "Out The Door" price. That is what they are selling the vehicle to you for. The cost of license plates and sales tax will be extra in addition to the cost of the car. The dealer is not responsible for those.

Once you get the price, LEAVE. The following day or two call the salesman who gives you the best price and tell him/her you have shopped around and you ARE GOING TO ORDER A VEHICLE FROM SOMEONE TODAY. Who you order from depends on the price. Tell him you can be there in two hours to order the truck from them for X amount of dollars (a little less than his quote). IMPORTANT NOTE: CALL THEM ON THE PHONE. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THE DEALERSHIP WHEN YOU MAKE THIS OFFER! In this game of tennis you have just batted the ball into their court and forced them to give you a yes or no over the phone. (And you avoid the useless signing of some "promise" form that you will pay a given price only to have to wait by yourself for a half hour in the salesman's office while they go consult with some mysterious manager.)

They may not discount the original quote but by this time you know if it is a good price. He/she may need to call you back after talking with the manager. Call from home or where ever you are comfortable and get them to provide you with the price over the phone. If they can't do that hang up and find someone who can. When you agree to a price write it down, don't embarrass yourself, follow through and show up in the specified time and do what you said you would do.

There will be a bunch of paperwork to fill out. At that point they will ask you about financing. If their financing is a better deal than your bank's or what Ford does is offer an additional $500 dollar discount if you finance with them. THEN you can take their financing. You will have to make at least three payments to them, then you can switch back over to your bank or credit union.

Again, I never say anything to one dealer about the price another dealer gave me. That is almost bad manners.

What ever you get, I strongly suggest getting the trailer tow package with the built in receiver hitch, trailer brake controller and the larger trailer towing outside mirrors with the larger bottom convex mirrors which allow you to see beside your vehicle when making lane changes.

You can do the same thing with Chevrolets and other brands.

Cheers

[wwig]

Sherri,
If you would consider a late model used vehicle you should be able to find something within your budget. There is a dealership in my area where I have bought several vehicles over the years. I gave my salesperson a call with a list of what I was looking for, certified, number of miles, tow package etc. Dealerships have the ability to search regionally and within a week they had located a vehicle that fit my criteria.

[vintageracer]

Good advice above and adding to above.

Always remember there is typically 3 SEPARATE negotiations when purchasing a vehicle you have selected.

1. Price
2. Financing if any
3. Value of your trade-in if any

When dealing with a "Dealer" they have the advantage as they do this negotiation EVERYDAY and you do not. YES they are better at their job of selling you a vehicle than you are at buying one! Dealers spend LOT'S of money TRAINING their sales people to sell you a vehicle using "their" sales methods that they find successful

Most people run their mouth and within 3-5 minutes the sales person will know most everything they need to know to size you up and HOW sell you a vehicle.

This includes what you "think" you want in a vehicle, if you are a payment buyer (financing) , what you probably can afford based upon telling them you are a payment buyer and if you will be trading your current vehicle.

The dealer wants all 3 items listed above in one discussion to confuse you and give them the advantage. Don't fall for it!!

When they start pressuring you for information just say "Why is that important as I have not bought anything yet"???

Negotiate the price on the vehicle you want as suggested above and nothing else.

Once that's done you then negotiate the financing if needed based upon the dealers offering or what you have already arranged elsewhere that is best for YOU.

At the very end THEN say "You know what I think I will trade-in my old vehicle whatta ya give me on trade-in" and THEN you will see how little they will offer you as most of the profit has already left the deal as YOU separated the negotiations into the 3 distinct discussions and your trade-in was the saving grace to make some good profit on the deal.

The money in the vehicle business particularly in the New Vehicle business in made in the the financing kickback they receive from financing a vehcile and the used vehicle trade-ins they receive not the necessarily the profit made from selling you the actual vehicle. That profit for selling you the vehicle depends upon their volume and the "back end" money from the manufacturer at the end of the sales year which can be lucrative with high volume!

Enjoy the Negotiation as that's what it really is. Leave the emotion out, keep your mouth shut and you just might do OK!

[DeanCHS1980]

Bruce and Mike,

FANTASTIC information on the vehicle purchasing process. Knowledge is power and understanding the process will assist in the buying experience.

I bought two new vehicles in the Summer, 2009. The economy was in terrible shape and nothing was selling, so I thought I would do my part to help the economy! With the help of the Internet, I traveled 300 miles to purchase a new left over loaded '08 Kia Rondo that had an MSRP of $24,500. I bought it for $16,800 with dealer financing better than I could get at my bank.

Two months later, I used the "Cash for Clunkers" Program to trade in a minivan that had a trade-in value of $1,200. With Cash for Clunkers, I received $4,600 for the minivan. That was after negotiating a price of $300 below dealer invoice on the Honda Fit. Again, Honda financing was better than at my bank.

Research, knowledge, and patience will yield dividends in the murky world of buying a vehicle.

Take care,

Dean

[Raz]

The only thing I will add is to pay your vehicle off as soon as possible.. Then make payments to yourself in a "next car" account. Next time pay cash. Low interest rate, zero % interest rate financing just means the interest payment is built into the price of the vehicle. If cash won't get you a lower price walk away.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Raz

If cash won't get you a lower price walk away.

The problem with walking in and telling em I'M PAYING CASH is that CASH no longer gets you the best price. With NO option to make money on the financing and possibly not even the trade WHY sell you a vehicle at all with very little profit when the dealer knows the next bloke walking through the door WILL buy that very same vehicle, finance it and trade in a vehicle making the dealer "Mo Money"!

CASH is no longer KING!

[Raz]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

The problem with walking in and telling em I'M PAYING CASH is that CASH no longer gets you the best price. With NO option to make money on the financing and possibly not even the trade WHY sell you a vehicle at all with very little profit when the dealer knows the next bloke walking through the door WILL buy that very same vehicle, finance it and trade in a vehicle making the dealer "Mo Money"!

CASH is no longer KING!

That depends on the vehicle, the inventory, the time of year, and how many blokes have been through the door lately. Making payments always costs more. Leasing is worse.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Raz

Making payments always costs more. Leasing is worse.

Oh so True!!!

[Donna D.]

I found when I went to buy my 2014 Ford F-150, the only way to get over $10,000 in rebates was to finance through Ford Motor Credit. I did, because I only needed to do it for three months and thank goodness as FoMo interest rate was outrageous! A cash buyer wouldn't receive the rebates... I asked.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I found when I went to buy my 2014 Ford F-150, the only way to get over $10,000 in rebates was to finance through Ford Motor Credit. I did, because I only needed to do it for three months and thank goodness as FoMo interest rate was outrageous! A cash buyer wouldn't receive the rebates... I asked.

$10k in rebates. Wow

[Jon in AZ]

Pickups are the cash cows of the vehicle manufacturers. Lots of margin to work with. Paying anywhere near MSRP means you're feeding the cow!

As someone said, a lot of the margin comes in the form of bonuses for meeting sales benchmarks, so timing is critical. It's a bit like fishing. You have to throw the little ones back and wait for the big one. It helps if you're not too hungry.

[Sherritini]

To all that have taken the time to share their time and knowledge, a great BIG THANKS! This is my first rv and I want to get it right. I went to see the Honda Pilot today and I think that is going to work...slightly over my $30,000 budget...but look at all the money I will save on hotel rooms...LOL! Thanks, again, for all the great advice. See you on the road.
Sherri

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Sherri,

VERY nice. Keep us posted. I am very impressed with Pilots, including the new owns. Are you going to get the one that tows 5,000 lbs?

Take care,

Dean

[Sherritini]

I am going again today to try to purchase the 2016 Honda Pilot EX-L with AWD. We are about $3,000 apart on the price, but I really like the car. It has a towing capacity of 3,500-5,000 and the torque is 262. I may get a better price waiting until the end of the month.
I also liked the new Kia Sorento V6. The torque is 260, but I think the maximum towing is 3,500 and there are no AWD's in the state of Florida.
Thanks for posting!
Sherri