Maintenance & Restoration

rdickens · 07-17-2016, 07:57 AM

My stepdad was a car salesman and explained many things about the car buying process.

Always try to determine the "invoice price" of a vehicle and see how much over invoice they
are trying to get. Try to avoid discussions based on MSRP (sticker price).

Costco has a car buying program/service. Consumer Reports and Edmunds also have ( or used to have?) car buying programs/services that may allow you to find out the invoice price (including options) of a vehicle.

Never talk trade-in possibility or "monthly payment amounts" until after you have determined the actual "out the door" selling price of the vehicle.

Even if the dealer sells you a car at invoice+$$$, they still receive additional money at year end
from a factory-to-dealership "hold-back" amount.

Dealerships also make money from selling/re-selling the financing contract and also the difference in what they might offer as trade-in value on your old car and what they can actually sell your trade-in for on their used car lot.

Depending on the dealership, salesmen may make a higher percentage of the $$$ over invoice
after they reach their monthly quota. If so, they might take less per car early in the month in order to reach their quota. Or, if they have not yet made their quota, they might take less at the
end of the month to make sure they make their quota. Each situation may be different.

Always assume that, if a salesman leaves the room for any reason, that the intercom may still
be on and someone may be listening to your conversations. If you are heard to say something like "This one is nice, but I think I liked the other car over at the XYZ dealership better.", they may get more agreeable on lower pricing.

As always, YMMV! 😉

Good luck!

Ray

Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

Mr Lynn · 07-17-2016, 08:25 AM

Ray, that's excellent advice for buying a new vehicle. We generally buy two-three-year-old used cars, so knowing the invoice price is not possible. The dealers either get them as trades, or buy them at auction. Best I've been able to do is find a comparable vehicle at other dealers and use that as a bargaining chip. And make sure there are no 'surprise' additional charges on top of the negotiated price.

/Mr Lynn

rdickens · 07-17-2016, 12:38 PM

When thinking about torque, remember the "at towing RPM" qualifier.

At 60 mph, our Ford Escape 2.0L Ecoboost FWD is turning about 1750 rpm in 6th gear and about 2250 rpm in 5th gear (often the gear selected when the auto-transmission is in the S [sport] mode that is often used for towing). A high percentage of that engines' torque is available at about 2000 rpm and the entire 270 lb/ft of torque is reached at 3000 rpm.

By comparison, with our 2011 Honda CRV, we usually needed to tow in the D3 transmission setting. That locked out the top gears and set the engine rpm at about 3500 rpm at 60 mph.
Although 3500 rpm puts that engine in a much better torque range, compared to the normal non-towing D mode, the change in engine sound was very noticeable and always sounded to my wife like the engine was "racing". The higher rpm also gave slightly poorer mpg.

Turbo engines (i.e. Ecoboost) and Diesel engines develop their max torque at lower rpms. The down side to turbo engines and diesels can be a slightly higher initial purchase price and a little more expensive fuel. For our Ecoboost engine, non-towing operation can use normal 87 octane fuel. The Ford manual suggests premium (or at least higher octane mid-grade fuel?) for towing operations.

As always, YMMV. 😉

Good luck with your decisions and shopping! 😊

Ray

Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

Sherritini · 07-17-2016, 05:20 PM

Thanks for your insight on dealing with auto dealerships, Ray. Taking your advice, I know what two Honda dealers offered on the same car and asked each to get back to me if they could come closer to the money I want to spend. I am OK walking away or waiting until the last day of the month to see if we have a meeting of the minds. Thanks again for your thoughtful advice.
Sherri

Hammondfarm · 07-19-2016, 08:56 PM

If you have a Ford Explorer can a Scamp 16 be towed with it?
If not can the Explorer pull the Scamp 13.
Trying to find tow ratings and not looking in the correct area.

If I need to change vehicles and also want I take my canoe
What do you recommend?

bobnjudy78748 · 07-19-2016, 09:35 PM

it's a late model with a tow package and a 6 speed transmission = no problem
We towed a Casita 17' with a Hyundai GLS (full size, not the Sport) and hardly knew it was there

squish · 07-19-2016, 10:17 PM

The pilot might not return as great as mileage as you would hope.

But on the flip side, it's a far more useful and comfortable rig to drive day to day vs a truck.

as others have said, which ever truck or SUV you get make sure you get the towing package, from the factory if it's offered on that model, and frankly if it's not I'd look for a different model.

Also don't overlook a used rig, you could save a ton of cash and get a rig better designed for towing. Or nicer trim level then a Pilot.

Borrego Dave · 07-20-2016, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammondfarm

If you have a Ford Explorer can a Scamp 16 be towed with it?
If not can the Explorer pull the Scamp 13.
Trying to find tow ratings and not looking in the correct area.
If I need to change vehicles and also want I take my canoe
What do you recommend?

Take your VIN # and call a Ford dealer and have them run it to find how your truck was built for towing.

Hammondfarm · 07-20-2016, 03:17 AM

Thank you for the advice of getting my VIN number. I would have never thought of that. My husband recently passed away and I am looking at a Scamp to get around.

Borrego Dave · 07-20-2016, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammondfarm

Thank you for the advice of getting my VIN number. I would have never thought of that. My husband recently passed away and I am looking at a Scamp to get around.

So sorry for your loss.
Please feel free to ask any questions you may have here.

Jon in AZ · 07-20-2016, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammondfarm

If you have a Ford Explorer can a Scamp 16 be towed with it?

If not can the Explorer pull the Scamp 13.

Trying to find tow ratings and not looking in the correct area.

If I need to change vehicles and also want I take my canoe

What do you recommend?

Dave's advice to take the VIN to Ford is good. I will add that for a 16' Scamp, you will want a vehicle with a tow rating of 3500 pounds or higher. That's a pretty common rating for any number of mid-sized SUVs. I'm pretty sure even a Ford Escape or a Ford Edge can tow that much with the right engine and equipment, as well as similar offerings from other manufacturers.

An SUV with a roof rack will allow you to take the canoe. A shorter vehicle might be easier to load.

So sorry to hear about your husband. I'm glad you won't be giving up travel. My father passed away over 30 years ago. My mother, now 90, still travels in a class B motorhome.