Fiberglass Trailer Project $800 - Fiberglass RV


 
 
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:43 PM   #1
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http://worcester.en.craigslist.org/rvs/1081175724.html



No title, Bill of Sale only..........................


But looks like a good project.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:31 PM   #2
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FYI Winchendon, MA is located just south of New Hampshire, north central Mass, but is about 30 minutes from my house if anyone is considering buying and wants an unbiased opinion before traveling very far. If so PM me.

FYI trailers under 3001 lbs never have titles in Massachusetts, only Bills of Sale. Even when I purchased a camper from a state with a title, the DMV took the original, but no Mass title was issued. To register we are required to have a certificate of origin and registry application from the dealer if new, or bill of sale and the last registration (for the seller) if used. The VIN is on our registration.

Mike
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:40 PM   #3
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The VIN is probably under that plate/board on the tongue. The missing windows are scary. I wonder how rotted the floor is? IMO it's not worth 800.00....maybe half of that if you love to work! That's about what mine looked like when I bought it.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:55 PM   #4
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Worth checking your own state (for anyone considering buying it). When I checked, for example, the process was that if you were buying a title-less trailer from a state that would not normally issue a title for that size/type of trailer (latter part is key), then you could get a title with a bit of a process. This is just an example, because anyone should check current requirements with their own state.

But here is one state's version, as I remember it:

1) Notarized bill of sale
2) Previous owner's registration (this may not be required if it was not registered, but would help)
2) A certain numbered state form (forget what it was)
3) Another numbered state form which is something like an "affidavit of no title"
4) You then send it all in (can't take it in person), and a panel (or some such) looks it over and decides whether or not you get a title.

I don't mean to make it sound like they decide on a whim; basically they're looking for the notarized bill of sale, checking to see that the previous state would not have issued a title, etc.

I've found that this sort of thing varies greatly from state-to-state. Not only whether they would title such a trailer in the first place, but how much trouble it is to get a title if it is a titling state. Definitely worth a check in advance.

Raya
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:12 PM   #5
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To register we are required to have a certificate of origin and registry application from the dealer if new, or bill of sale and the last registration (for the seller) if used. The VIN is on our registration.
If I understand you correctly then Mike. The MA DMV issues a document called a registration with the VIN on it? If so is it called the registration and what does it look like?

Roy
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:19 PM   #6
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If I understand you correctly then Mike. The MA DMV issues a document called a registration with the VIN on it? If so is it called the registration and what does it look like?

Roy
Roy I own two travel trailers, and they fall into two very different categories (Plate Type) according to Massachusetts. Neither is determined by weight.
Trailer 1 is a 2008 Rockwood Roo 233 (a 23 foot hybrid camper, 5000 lbs and titled)
Trailer 2 is a 1982 Burro 13 (13 foot Fiberglass camper, 1000 lbs and NOT titled)

The Roo has a full bath, and therefore Mass. issues AHN (plate type) Auto Home Normal (otherwise called camper)
The Burro does not have a bathroom(non fixed does not count) and therefore Mass. issues TRN (plate Type) Trailer Normal, this is the same plate you get for a utility trailer.

The actual document is a "Certificate of Registration". The paper is approximately 4"x7". It includes my name, and address, the Plate type, Registration number (this matches the physical plates on the trailer), expiration and effective dates, fees paid, year, make, model name, model type, color, VIN, and and title number. The title number is blank if no title has been issued. There is also a Total Registered Weight box (I have learned that for non-titled vehicles this is determined from the original application for registration. I have owned trailers where this was grossly overstated, or grossly understated. For titled vehicles this is less subjective.) Obviously we have similar certificates for the car and truck as well. Please note that to transfer ownership and to register the previous owners registration does not need to be current (with the burro it had been expired for three years)

Mass RMV Title Requirements (actual link to state site) are that all motor vehicles and trailers be titled except for 11 different categories. The second to last is: "A trailer with a gross weight of three thousand (3000) pounds or less."


This is pretty well defined on the Mass.gov/rmv site so I would expect that other states have similar sites to assist in researching.

I agree with Raya check with the state where you live, then make sure you get the doc needed at purchase. It took weeks for the previous owner of my burro to find the old registration certificate, and when I cleaned it out I found the most recent in the camper. I would have been upset if I had traveled far, and had to return for updated docs.

Mike
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:27 PM   #7
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The missing windows are scary. I wonder how rotted the floor is? IMO it's not worth 800.00....maybe half of that if you love to work!
I absolutely agree, my Burro was $300, with all windows, appliances, and cushions. Also the double shell cleaned up very nice. I have a slight floor issue by the door, where is was previously repaired poorly. Nothing like decades of rain and snow sitting inside. I wouldn't pay $800 either, but for someone that wants to do the rebuild I bet a sale could be negotiated.

Mike
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:59 PM   #8
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Mike,

I'm curious about something (if you happen to know; please don't feel you have to go searching). What if you own the trailer but do not choose to register it? For example, I can title my trailer, but I do not have to register it (i.e. get plates) unless I want to use it on public roadways. Registration can be added at a later date if one changes one's mind.

I realize that DMV only required "last registration." But I could imagine that someone might buy a trailer (particularly a "project") and never register and plate it.

Or are you required to register even if you are not going to operate it on roadways?

Raya

PS: Funny how in some ways the US has become quite homogenized, but you take something arcane like trailer licensing rules and every state is extremely unique.
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:16 PM   #9
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Raya I do not know if we are required to register if you don't tow it on the road, but I do know we are required to pay sales tax. In Mass it is part of the same transaction. When we purchase a vehicle or trailer we pay registration and title fees, as well as sales tax to the RMV. To use a trailer it must be registered, so I have always registered trailers before taking possession (this also give me an out if the documentation doesn't hold up at the registry). I attach the new plates and tow it home. In your scenario I guess, technically just towing home would be a legal violation.

We have friends that purchased a used trailer in the fall a few years ago, and did not register until the spring. They were assessed some proportionately pretty heavy fines for not paying the sales tax within 20 days. (Penalty was not quite the full tax amount but was close, fortunately the sales tax on a $800 trailer would be $40, so a sub penalty didn't kill anyone. But imagine a $20,000 trailer, $1000 sales tax, and a sub $1000 penalty, ouch!)

I would also add that from what I have seen there appear to be people here that do not register, or they do not have the old registration. I have always stayed very clear of those nightmares. FYI the current owner can go to the registry and request a duplicate of an old expired registration if they can't find it, I'm sure its not a easy task. So we end up with all kinds of people saying its not needed, they don't have it etc. the unknowing buyer pays in full, takes possession, and gets caught in a red tape nightmare. FYI trailer registration is somewhere between 25-40 dollars per year. I suspect the fine (don't know if its a fine or criminal violation) for towing without valid registration is far more than that.

I have registered at purchase but let the registration lapse on many occasions. We also pay an annual excise on all registered vehicles and trailers, so if not going to use in the year we let the registration lapse. If needed we renew registration, which can be prorated depending how far into the year.

Mike
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:37 PM   #10
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Raya you are so right about those things varying state by state. Here in California there is no "non-op" for trailers, one must pay the registration/licensing each year on trailer coach plates. If you do not pay it and sell it the next owner will have to pay the back registration and penalties to register it. Ask me how I know.....
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:01 AM   #11
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Lizbeth: Oopsie!

Quote:
To use a trailer it must be registered, so I have always registered trailers before taking possession (this also give me an out if the documentation doesn't hold up at the registry). I attach the new plates and tow it home. [b]In your scenario I guess, technically just towing home would be a legal violation.
Thanks for the added info - interesting to compare between states.

Actually, there's a neat feature here (could have used it many times in the past, living in other states) called a "Trip Permit." You pay $5, and you get three days to move either an unregistered car/trailer that you own; or one that you're going to look at and potentially purchase. You have longer than three days between buying it and using it, if you want it, but just three days for the actual trip. You can buy it online and print it out; then you just tape it in the rear window. Practically painless. So that's what I used to pick up my Boler and bring it back.

When you do choose to register, you can either pay for a yearly plate or a lifetime one. I think it's $18 for a yearly if the trailer is under 1500#

Raya
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:24 AM   #12
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Thanks Mike,

Your answer should help others looking in the future. The title is not always the ultimate issue. I could easily use your Certificate of Registration to cross the border and register a trailer here in Ontario.

Now that you've also taken the time to explain the penalties for non registration in MA. I see the previous owners hesitation in wanting to get me the proper paperwork to register the trailer they sold me. The sum of the taxes, penalties etc. would have amounted to more than I paid for the trailer.

The seller had inherited it from his father and had the original NY "registration", so that document was accepted for transfering.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:09 AM   #13
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Mike,
PS: Funny how in some ways the US has become quite homogenized, but you take something arcane like trailer licensing rules and every state is extremely unique.
RAYA,
Arcane? Not your everyday verbage! You must be an english teacher or something!!! I couldn't find it in my dictionary. I found the meaning of this word online.
arcane: (meaning) "requiring secret or mysterious knowledge"

Dave
"The Trillium King"
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:44 AM   #14
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