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Old 11-08-2012, 12:15 PM   #15
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Bob, you have no idea how many times your policy has been suggested here. I also suspect there are more than a few people who have only been here a fairly short time who have no idea as to how many people who where very knowledgeable & regular contributors to this site who have long stopped posting on any topic on this forum due to the lack of a policy such as yours. It pretty sad for me to sit at a campfire at a trailer meet and hear the question as to why the forum doesnt have a policy raised over and over and to hear why so many people have stopped posting due to the lack of a policy on this topic. It does seem a little strange in this day and age that the free speech rights of a very small number (less than a handful) who ever chance they get continue to encourage people to "think outside the box" in regards to what is a safe tow, are given more weight than the wishes of the majority.

I admit I have more than once thrown up my arms in disgust on this topic and considered joining the ranks of the others who have just stop posting to this forum all together. But to be honest I decided it was more pro active to make sure each every time they encourage the "thinking outside the box" that an opposing position be posted. The hope is that is someone does get seriously injured or killed as a result of having been encouraged by someone here to "think outside the box" that we may hear about it and those doing the encouraging will need to take ownership of it. But to be honest I honestly dont know if we will in fact every know if that has happened already or not as I am not so sure that those already in their graves have internet access.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gezundheit View Post
To all,
HELLO.i've been lurking around this great site and after getting my new tow vehicle,it was time to join up.over the years i've enjoyed a few different kinds of RVs and realized it was time for something small enough to be pulled by a Fiat 500.the "somethings" i've been looking at are all in that 13ft.size.the tow weight range is 400-800kg.anyone out there with a subcompact in my little fiats class is welcome to share their experience and knowledge.regards,brian.
Betcha didn't know what kind of worm-can you were opening up, Brian!

Whatever you decide to tow:
Do make sure to get a better run at hills than the (Fiat?) driver in this video did!

Francesca


Small car, big camper - YouTube
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by gezundheit View Post
To all,
HELLO.i've been lurking around this great site and after getting my new tow vehicle,brian.



Welcome Brian, Glad you joined us. But I will have to say, I am one that wouldn't consider your vehicle a "tow vehicle" or at least not for anything over/near it's tow cap. Can't remember if it was determined if it even had a tow cap or not....... If not I am sorry for you, because I do hope you can find something that will work for you to get out and enjoy camping. Perhaps one of those pop up trailers that motorcylces pull. They are pretty cool.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post

I actually don't enjoy reading many of the "outside the box" posts I see on several sites I am on because it often encourages others to come to the conclusion that really bad ideas are OK.

On my own motorhome tech site I ban any posts that are beyond known specifications, if only because, as the site owner, I can become party to any future injuies and/or lawsuits resulting from following such suggestions.

Owners/Moderators here would do well to follow the same policy and/or post a disclaimer to that effect




Very Well said!
I actually prefer to live "outside" the box but don't believe my choices should have impact on others who choose not to. And the subject of improper towing would have impact on others.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
I admit I have more than once thrown up my arms in disgust on this topic and considered joining the ranks of the others who have just stop posting to this forum all together. But to be honest I decided it was more pro active to make sure each every time they encourage the "thinking outside the box" that an opposing position be posted. The hope is that is someone does get seriously injured or killed as a result of having been encouraged by someone here to "think outside the box" that we may hear about it and those doing the encouraging will need to take ownership of it. But to be honest I honestly dont know if we will in fact every know if that has happened already or not as I am not so sure that those already in their graves have internet access.





Oh don't I know!

But I do believe if those of us who are the voice of proper towing keep guideing new tow'ers to the proper way of towing we will save at least some of them from having huge issues that they have no idea could occur. So for now it's worth the frustration.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:46 PM   #18
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Smile delighted at your enthusiasm

i knew you all were a great bunch.your response to my initial questions only confirms this.i'm a retread as far as trailering goes and made my living until my retirement,owning/driving big trucks.i pulled flatbeds mainly all over the
U.S./Canada.i mention this only to mollify any members that might view me
as a screwball.well,that being said,the fun of meeting you all and the search for the perfect camper shall commence,with due consideration to everyones input.
kindest regards,brian.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gezundheit View Post
i knew you all were a great bunch.your response to my initial questions only confirms this.i'm a retread as far as trailering goes and made my living until my retirement,owning/driving big trucks.i pulled flatbeds mainly all over the
U.S./Canada.i mention this only to mollify any members that might view me
as a screwball.well,that being said,the fun of meeting you all and the search for the perfect camper shall commence,with due consideration to everyones input.
kindest regards,brian.
Glad you're back, Brian!

Advice from one screwball to another:

Go to the " Tow Limit" link posted below my signature and punch in the relevant info- it'll give you a laws-of-physics based answer to the capacity question...if you have one!

Best of luck in your search!

Francesca
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #20
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Since everyone here is expressing an opinion without any facts and there doesn't appear to be any facts available, I would always check with what the owner's manual states. That is a clear and written legal document from the manufacturer. Everything else here is "Nolo contendere"
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:48 PM   #21
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Actually Jim if you were to read post 5 and follow the link as posted to the US Fiat 500 website you will read where it clearly states "Max. Gross Trailer Weight: Not rated for trailer tow" What further facts do you require??
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:57 PM   #22
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In post #4

"TRAILER TOWING
Trailer towing with this vehicle is not allowed."

Was copied and pasted out of the Fiat 500 Owners manual Carole cited in post #5 and is FiatUSA's entire position on the subject. See page 485 in the Fiat 500 Owners manual.


Def: nolo contendere (no-low kahn-ten-durr-ray) n. Latin for "I will not contest" (Westlaw)

Nolo Contendere is first person and cannot refer to fact, opinions or inanimate objects.)

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Old 11-08-2012, 08:02 PM   #23
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Carol and Bob,
If you read my post it states a fact, not something you posted here., that is an opinion. Without the original evidence that came with the vehicle to compare let's move on away from semantics.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:03 PM   #24
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Hey, Brian!

Is your Private Message inbox full yet?

Francesca
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:13 PM   #25
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This thread reminds me of the Allstate commercial, "If it is found or stated on the internet, then it must be true", Where did you read that- "On the internet.!" "Bonjour"
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Carol and Bob,
If you read my post it states a fact, not something you posted here., that is an opinion. Without the original evidence that came with the vehicle to compare let's move on away from semantics.
Seriously Jim? While I dont disagree with you that the information posted from the manual and from USFiat500 is an opinion, its that of the manufactures, not mine or Bob's. Your statement in that regard that "everyone here is expressing an opinion without any facts and there doesn't appear to be any facts available," is also if one uses the same semantics that you have chosen to use, is simple an opinion not fact.

Based on your position on the above is it any surprise to anyone that many have come away from this site in the past year or two with the perception its become pro unsafe towing practise. I for one certainly hope that it really isnt the position of this sites owner and or its management team. But as one new to this forum member said to me this summer “ I just don’t get it!” With all sincerity all I can say is I don’t either but the way this topic gets handle frequently and today being a pretty darn good example, it leaves a lot of room for doubt. Sad day
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:57 PM   #27
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In closing, I know that the courts have held that a statement contained within a corporations website, and purporting to be a facsimile of the original owners manual, unless otherwise disclaimed, as being one and the same as that sent with the vehicle as of that day If it's close enough for the courts, it's close enough for me and, I am sure, 98% of the readers hereabouts.

Carol, I think that the interested party has his answers, let's you and I got out for a beverage break.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
On my own motorhome tech site I ban any posts that are beyond known specifications, if only because, as the site owner, I can become party to any future injuies and/or lawsuits resulting from following such suggestions.

Owners/Moderators here would do well to follow the same policy and/or post a disclaimer to that effect
This website actually does cover this in the Terms of Service, linked at the bottom of this and every page.

It basically says that individuals are responsible for what they post online.
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