Hello all, I'm pumped I found this forum.

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Hearsay can be a dangerous thing

What proof do those that claim such things have that they are in fact the exactly the same vehicle even though the majority of vehicles are now built in different countries depending on where the market is they are being sold? And or that the towing environment/standard (i.e. test speeds/grades) the tow rating is set on, is in all ways the same in Europe as it is in North America?

Part of the difference is the requirements of the trailer itself in Europe. A new 5th wheel Escape imported to the Netherlands had to be refitted with an entirely new axle due to the brake system requirements and the coupler to the tow vehicle to meet their standards. European speed limits are generally much lower and traffic laws are a bit different than the US (except on the Autobahn.) I follow the US owners manual on my vehicles, although I'm certain the ratings are conservative with a healthy safety factor for liability purposes.

[BigT]

Hi Matt;
My experience is with Canadian vehicles. As I have stated to others Andy Taylor of Can AM Rv in London Ont. has done years of research into tow vehicles, and there capabilities. He is kind of a guru of tow vehicles in Canada. I am sure if you contact him via email after searching out him on the internet, he will have very solid and useful suggestions for you.
All the best,
BigT

[Roger H]

Yes, Matt, while you need to be thoughtful about what you tow and how you load it, a tow vehicle with a 1500 lb tow capacity can do what you ask of it. I towed an '03 Scamp 16 for about three years with a Honda Element. The Scamp was a side-dinette unit with a fridge and sink... and no other options. It was hard to find and I drove from Iowa to Ohio to pick it up. I paid $4k for it in 2010. I had the Element equipped with a 2" receiver hitch. I also had a Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller installed. The 16' trailer has trailer brakes, and I would tell you it would be a necessity for any trailer you tow with a CRV to have trailer brakes as well Here's an album of that Scamp.

P5095039 cropped (Medium) by Roger H, on Flickr

[Raz]

I've got a 2015 CRV. It has more than enough power to tow my 1700 lb Trillium. If all my camping destinations were local I might consider it. But I'm not convinced Honda intends for me to pull a travel trailer, even if it were we within the tow limit. Honda sells on OEM hitch and wiring harness. The hitch is a class 1, limited to 2000lbs and 200lb tw. The wiring harness is a 4 pin. No brakes. No charge line. And while dealer will certainly install the hitch and harness, I doubt they will do the rest of the wiring. The installation instructions are easy to find on line and worth reviewing.

There are of course after market hitches, rated to class 3. Like the OEM, the installation instructions are easy to find. What's interesting is the Curt class 3 hitch I looked at only uses 4 of the 6 weldnut attaching points provided. Certainly not as robust an installation as the manufacturer intends. Also, like the OEM, the charge line and brake wire are left to you to figure out.

I wired a Subaru Forester. The CRV would be similar. It certainly doable and there are folks who will do it for you. But before you decide, you should do some homework. Good luck, Raz

[Jon in AZ]

My experience is that none of the smaller vehicles do much to encourage trailer towing. Three reasons, I think. One, small egg trailers are barely a blip in the RV market. There are not enough of us to matter. Two, they'd much rather sell you a large SUV or truck. Lots more profit there. Three, in the US no extra training or licensing is required to tow a trailer. People do stupid things, and manufacturers certainly consider potential liability when setting tow ratings.

As to the Class I OEM hitch, there's no reason to offer anything larger. In fact it could be taken by lawyers as encouragement to ignore the 1500 pound rating. Most people would probably install an aftermarket 2" hitch for towing a small trailer, but doing so doesn't change the 1500 pound rating.

A larger vehicle is not necessarily any easier to set up for towing. Based on several posts I've read, Toyota doesn't give much help or encouragement with wiring, either, and I'm talking about vehicles with 3500 pounds or more of rated towing capacity. When we bought our Pilot, we also cross-shopped Highlanders. By many measures, the Highlander was the better vehicle, but it was several thousand dollars more and would have required many hundreds more to set it up to tow. The Pilot was basically plug-and-play.

I would never recommend towing with an under-rated vehicle, but neither do I subscribe to the philosophy that bigger is always better. There is under-sized, there is over-kill, and there is right-sized. The answer depends on a lot of factors, trailer weight being just the starting point.

BTW- Scamp 16s typically weigh 2400-2600 pounds with well over 200 pounds on the hitch. That is not something I would even remotely consider with a CRV.

[Monte W]

Hi, Welcome to our site. i have a 2011 CRV and a 13 Casita and to be honest, I can tow it but i have to be careful when doing it. I think a better fit for you would be a 13 foot Scamp! Hope this helps!
All the best, Monte

[Ruralredhead]

Welcome Matt. I share your commitment to teaching kids about travel and just got a 13" scamp for our 1.5 and 6 year old. 65 square feet plus the great outdoors should be enough for us.


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[Raz]

My experience is that none of the smaller vehicles do much to encourage trailer towing.

I think both Honda and Subaru, the two I am familiar with, do encourage towing but not travel trailers. Both provide dealer installed towing options to increase the versatility and sales of their vehicles. But this capability is intended for small boats and utility trailers not travel trailers. It's common in the sales brochure to see a pair of snowmobiles or jet skis being towed. And while both brands will tell you you need brakes for a trailer over 1000 lbs, neither provide harnesses or even information on how make such connections.

[Jon in AZ]

I think that's about right, Raz. Some small vehicles address that distinction by imposing a frontal area limit as well as a weight limit.

Beyond small tent trailers and teardrops, a few (and certainly not all) 13' eggs and a few others, such as the Eriba Puck/Meerkat are the only stand-up travel trailers that can squeak by under 1500 pounds in the real world.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

As to the Class I OEM hitch, there's no reason to offer anything larger. In fact it could be taken by lawyers as encouragement to ignore the 1500 pound rating. Most people would probably install an aftermarket 2" hitch for towing a small trailer, but doing so doesn't change the 1500 pound rating.

The hitch on the Element was from U-Haul, and was originally installed to hold a bicycle carrier, actually. And the class III hitch is the strongest part of that setup. it's rated at 5,000 lbs. But you're right and it can't be stated too many times... having a Class III receiver hitch doesn't improve the vehicle's rated tow capacity of 1500 lbs.

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I would never recommend towing with an under-rated vehicle, but neither do I subscribe to the philosophy that bigger is always better. There is under-sized, there is over-kill, and there is right-sized. The answer depends on a lot of factors, trailer weight being just the starting point.

Knowledge and experience count for a lot when setting up a tug and a trailer when you're close to or slightly over the manufacturer's tow rating. And having a braked axle on the trailer with a trailer brake controller in the vehicle is a MUST.

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

BTW- Scamp 16s typically weigh 2400-2600 pounds with well over 200 pounds on the hitch. That is not something I would even remotely consider with a CRV.

And I need to be specific here, the new Scamp advertised weight for a stripped 16' is 1750 lbs with a tongue weight of 165 lbs. The Scamp 16 that i had (pictured) was very close to that curb weight which, while it exceeds the rated capacity of 1500 lbs, doesn't exceed it by much. Even loaded with food, clothes for one or tow and 5 gallons of water, there isn't much more weight added, and the 5-speed manual Element handled it with aplomb for some 25,000 towing miles while I had that combination. I even crashed that combination, hitting a large deer at night and was able to bring it to a safe stop on the side of a four lane highway without headlights on a dark, moonless night. The Element's damage ($7,000 worth) was repaired and I continued towing the Scamp with it until I traded the Element for a Toyota FJ 'Cruiser with a 5,000 lb tow capacity and upgraded the trailer to a Heartland MPG model 184 simply because I wanted hot water and a shower in the trailer.

Bear in mind that a Scamp 16 with any other options (particularly a water heater, larger fridge, and AC) is going to push that weight well into the 2500lb range very quickly. If you have a Scamp 16 deluxe with all the amenities (I had a really nice '02 that I towed with V6 Toyota pickups) you're going to be in the 3100-3300 lb range really quickly.

I'm not advocating that anyone overload the rated capacity of their tow vehicle, but towing at the vehicle's rated capacity isn't an automatic "catastrophe waiting to happen" either. I was able to safely tow MY Scamp 16 with the Element for three years and some 25,000 trouble-free (except for the deer crash) miles.