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Old 10-24-2011, 12:34 PM   #15
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Electric Floor heating

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Originally Posted by WildBirder View Post
They actually have floor heating that is purely electric no need for the water or tubing. It's also advertised as very cost effective and low wattage. It might have to go under tile though (weight) I wonder if anyone has tried this in an RV?
I looked into it and it for heating a trailer I was building. The heat output is about 10-12 watts per square foot. The available flooring in a 16 foot trailer is about 40 square feet tops much of the floor is under cabinets and the like, providing at most 500 watts (12x40), this equates to about 1500 BTUs.

It doesn't have to go under tile. It can be used under a Pergo floating floor.

I will say we lived in a post War II house that had radiant heting in the floor. It was absolutely wonderful. Everyone was forever sitting on the floor.

The following site gives more information.
Laminate Floor Heating - ThermoSoft

It seems that in general we're able to keep a satisfactory temperature in our Scamp 16 with an 800-1500 watt electric heater, 2400 to 5000 btus. It makes me wonder how efficient a propane heater is that produces 16,000 BTUs.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:01 AM   #16
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Name: Raz
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"It seems that in general we're able to keep a satisfactory temperature in our Scamp 16 with an 800-1500 watt electric heater, 2400 to 5000 btus. It makes me wonder how efficient a propane heater is that produces 16,000 BTUs."




Judging by the temperature of the exhaust, I would say the efficiency of my propane heater is not very good.

David, welcome to forum. Raz
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:51 AM   #17
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Propane Furnace

The following is based on intuition.

The inefficiency of the traditional Propane furnace, even if silenced, is still a fault of the system.

It appears a device like a 3000 BTU Little Buddy or a small electric heater is adequate to meet the heating needs of small fiberglass trailers. This suggests that the efficiency of a Propane furnace is 50% or less. It seems the heating solution needs a different approach.

I have no great affinity for the hot water heater, another low efficiency product when running on propane, but 100% efficient on electricity. However, it seems that a small radiator running off the water heater with muffin fan level air flow thru it could provide adequate heat in a small trailer. My recollection is that a foot of hot water base board radiator provides about 500 BTUs of heat and that's without a fan.

It does seem the water heater could provide the necessary BTUs. Could the water heater be made more efficient?

Certainly the water heater has much in common with the Propane furnace. It sits there mostly unused, probably not providing hot water for more than 30 minutes a day.

It seems that the propane side of the hot water heater is designed for rapid heating at the cost of inefficiency when running on propane. Could it be just as effective with a less jet engine like heating system?

We find that when running in the electric mode with a 600-1500 watt electric Hot Rodd that we have adequate hot water for showers and other usage.

It seems to me that it would be posiible to combine hot water heater and the propane furnace into a single solution with increased efficiency, quieter operation and space savings.

Safe, warm travels
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by WildBirder View Post
They actually have floor heating that is purely electric no need for the water or tubing. It's also advertised as very cost effective and low wattage. It might have to go under tile though (weight) I wonder if anyone has tried this in an RV?
I have a friend who has floor heat in his Scamp 5er, if you contact me offline I will put you in touch with him if you are interested.
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:51 PM   #19
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I'll do that Kevin. The plan in a nut shell is to cover that noisey sheet metal housing with sound deadener. Next is to look at isolating the unit from the cabinet. Cutting down all that resonance will help a lot. I want to kill that load snap when the furnace first kicks on too. I think it is the propane valve. Last is replacing the fan units in the furnace with brushless DC fans. They cost a fraction of the original, run forever, and draw very little power. I just need to match the CFM and physical requirements. I'll document the process and parts though

If it were up me, I'd give the suburban guys a year in prison with one of their quality furnaces right in the cell . Ater a year of sleeping in 15 minute intervals maybe they would see the value in designing something that works,...ya think?
David
A couple of questions...
Is your Scamp a standard? We don't consider our furnace excessively noisy, but many people do, and I was wondering if the deluxe cabinetry might be the why.Also, ours is a 12Kbtu and the newer ones are16K, they appear pretty much alike, suppose the smaller one is quieter?
Also, we have not experienced the surge in our pump. Ours is a 2004.
I was wondering if that was due to a different year pump or the fact that we have a hot water heater and shower which may act as a buffer as you described for the shurflo.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
A couple of questions...
Is your Scamp a standard? We don't consider our furnace excessively noisy, but many people do, and I was wondering if the deluxe cabinetry might be the why.Also, ours is a 12Kbtu and the newer ones are16K, they appear pretty much alike, suppose the smaller one is quieter?
Also, we have not experienced the surge in our pump. Ours is a 2004.
I was wondering if that was due to a different year pump or the fact that we have a hot water heater and shower which may act as a buffer as you described for the shurflo.
Floyd, I'd say mine is sub-standard since I opted for all the less deluxe items . No carpet in mine either. Yeah it has the fiberglass cabinets and the heater is mounted direct to the cabinet. I'm quite sure that makes it louder and I plan to build a good wood mount for mine inside the cabinet. A few people have said that they believe their 12K units are quieter. Perhaps they are putting out a little less air. I'm going to look into downgrading mine to 12K if I can. I think all the parts on these are interchangable. Mine puts out too much heat for the small space.

I don't know about the pump but it could be that mine is different. The extra plumbing that you have probably provides more ballast as well. That is a good observation! Mine is plumbed direct to the sink and man it was a jackhammer! The Flojet is barely noticable even with the faucet barely cracked.
David
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:50 PM   #21
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"Roger,
I love those heaters but I can't rely on grid power very often. Did you know that they make a pint sized version of that heater? It's half the height of the full size and plenty of output for a little trailer. They kind of sound like a deep fat fryer when you start them up which is very comforting
David"

No, I didn't know that. Do you have a link to one? I will search online myself. I know they make a flat one that isn't as thick as ours.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAY...22-180997910-2

I found these brands: Honeywell, DeLonghi, Pelonis. Optimus, Comfort Zone, Dayton, Kenwood, and New Air.

I suspect that they don't make a water filled one for two reasons: water freezes. What temperature do you protect your heater for? -40? and the other is that water is inherently caustic. The original bottle of distilled water is cloudy because of the water dissolving the inside of the glass bottle.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:09 PM   #22
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Trailer: 16 foot Scamp
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Roger,
I tried to find a link to one and couldn't find it. Very strange. These are all filled with oil, not water. The smaller versions pull just 700 watts. I have seen them at BiMart, an Oregon chain, and I just got a flyer from TruValue hardware and they have one as well for $29.
David


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Originally Posted by Roger C H View Post
"Roger,
I love those heaters but I can't rely on grid power very often. Did you know that they make a pint sized version of that heater? It's half the height of the full size and plenty of output for a little trailer. They kind of sound like a deep fat fryer when you start them up which is very comforting
David"

No, I didn't know that. Do you have a link to one? I will search online myself. I know they make a flat one that isn't as thick as ours.

Electric Heater, Analog Flat Panel, 400 W - Portable Electric Heaters - Heating Equipment - 1VNX3 : Grainger Industrial Supply

I found these brands: Honeywell, DeLonghi, Pelonis. Optimus, Comfort Zone, Dayton, Kenwood, and New Air.

I suspect that they don't make a water filled one for two reasons: water freezes. What temperature do you protect your heater for? -40? and the other is that water is inherently caustic. The original bottle of distilled water is cloudy because of the water dissolving the inside of the glass bottle.
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