New member - still looking

[Jim18655]

Found this forum looking for information on small trailers. Need something under 1500 lbs. to tow with a Subaru Forester and thought a Scamp 13' might fit the bill. Just need to find one somewhat local to look at before I place an order.

[Glenn Baglo]

Go to Search, at the top of the page and type Subaru Forester in the Google search box. You will find hundreds of posts and opinions ( mostly don't ).

[floyd]

The right Scamp13 will tow very nicely with a Subaru forester (what year?).
What amenities do you feel you need?
I'm sure someone near you has one for you to check out.

[Glenn Baglo]

My RAV4 V6 has 3,500 lb. tow and 350lb. tongue capacity.
The 17B Escape, fully loaded, with water comes in at 3,200lbs. with a 340 lb tongue weight ( I have a Sherline scale ).
I removed my cast iron skillets and the Coleman folding oven ( which weighs 7 lbs. ).

Problem with the Forester is limited tongue capacity ( 200 lbs? ). I towed my boat and my tent trailer with a Subaru Loyale Wagon. Spent a lot of money on brake jobs and damn near got religion heading downhill toward a highway junction while facing a stop sign.

My Escape has electric brakes. My next vehicle, if there is one, will be the Highlander with a 5,000 lb. tow capacity to give me an extra margin of comfort and security. I cannot suggest that it's just fine to tow a 13' with a Forester. I can suggest the OP read previous discussions.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

My RAV4 V6 has 3,500 lb. tow and 350lb. tongue capacity.
The 17B Escape, fully loaded, with water comes in at 3,200lbs. with a 340 lb tongue weight ( I have a Sherline scale ).
I removed my cast iron skillets and the Coleman folding oven ( which weighs 7 lbs. ).

Problem with the Forester is limited tongue capacity ( 200 lbs? ). I towed my boat and my tent trailer with a Subaru Loyale Wagon. Spent a lot of money on brake jobs and damn near got religion heading downhill toward a highway junction while facing a stop sign.

My Escape has electric brakes. My next vehicle, if there is one, will be the Highlander with a 5,000 lb. tow capacity to give me an extra margin of comfort and security. I cannot suggest that it's just fine to tow a 13' with a Forester. I can suggest the OP read previous discussions.

I didn't mean to say that you could or should suggest such a combo.

A scamp13 tongue weight starts at under a hundred pounds,but even with the arbitrary 10% it would be about 140 pounds on a Scamp13 front bunk nicely equipped (1200-1400 pounds). Even a Scamp13S front bath weighs 1750 with a package, A/C, and awning which equates to 175 pounds tongue weight according to J2807.
Brakes are offered on the Scamp13, (and we're not supposed to talk religion on this forum...just kidding!)
I was sure you were towing sensibly, so I was only suggesting that it comes down to a fair comparison.

[Glenn Baglo]

Seems to be sentence missing from your Post #3 Floyd.

[Jim18655]

We thought about a Class C motor home but with low gas mileage and insurance we didn't feel it was as practical as a small trailer. Motels would work except we have two dogs and pet friendly places are few and far between also have restrictions on size and number and not always available. My wife doesn't like to kennel "her babies" for more than a couple of days.
The 2015 Forester is rated to tow 1500 lbs with brakes and the Forester forum had a lot of recommendations for small fiberglass campers. Older Foresters had a much higher rating but new SAE standards lowered it about 900 lbs. Forester also has the Xmode and VDC systems. Outbacks with the same drive train still have the 2400 lb tow rating. Occasionally tow a small utility trailer that has had about 1200 lbs of construction waste to the transfer station over hilly terrain. I know that's not the same as long trip but no noticeable trouble.
The amenities are:
Brakes
AC (somewhat needed due to breathing issues)
Shower/toilet package
Awning
Receiver for bike rack
Furnace
I don't mind buying new but would like to "try one on" to check size of living space to see how we fit. The bed is the biggest concern. How wide is it? Any where in eastern PA is OK for a tour.
I think the AC unit and furnace might make resale better later and awning to increase living space.
According to the specs it should be close to the limit for the Forester.
Thanks.

[Jon in AZ]

With the equipment you listed you will be at around 1800 pounds loaded and maybe 240 pounds tongue weight.

Bathroom models usually have dual propane tanks, since you'll be running a HW heater as well as the stove, fridge, and furnace. You could get the total weight and tongue weight down a bit by going with a single tank, but you're still going to be well over 1500 pounds.

The bath/shower package and A/C are fairly heavy options. The furnace and awning add weight, too. What's the receiver for?

With a 1500 pound limit, you really need to pare the options down. Dogs and other gear in the back of the vehicle reduce available tongue weight.

Something's gotta give.

[k0wtz]

Yep pretty heavy with all that! I pull my barebooned 13f with a ford edge rated 2000 even then I am not going to challenge my auto. I have developed driving habits that will drive most people up the wall but I am not messing around with my transmission or motor so that is my plan and it works.


In my bus driving days a 26,000lb eagle bus called for even more planning because lose control of that thing and real damage can occur to the other guy! I didn't want that so I studied up how the big-boys did things but it was hard to learn.


How about learning to double clutch flying down a hill with a big one coming in front of you or a stop light at the bottom of a hill? You needed your motor and transmission to be your brakes oh you had air brakes but they burn up too!


Just think things through before you leap!


bob

[Jim18655]

Thinking things through - that's why I'm here asking questions.
Scamp had lower weights listed for the 13' trailer 1300 -1500.
I spent years in the construction trades and know the feeling of heavy loads and vehicles. Those steep down-hill stops when a car pulls out are always fun. I never learned to "stop on a dime" like they expected me to do. I'm glad I only had to drive larger trucks occasionally. Try driving a line truck pulling a load of utility poles on a pole trailer in the hills of PA.
The rear receiver was only for a 2 bicycle rack.
Toilet and shower because I don't know where we'll end up day to day.
About 1 year to retirement so plenty of time to look and plan. Smaller trips until then.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Jim18655

Thinking things through - that's why I'm here asking questions.
Scamp had lower weights listed for the 13' trailer 1300 -1500.

Jim, any of the posted weight numbers from any builder are pretty much bogus. Those numbers are from the empty rolling shell before they add anything. Looks good in the sales ads though but it's not real world numbers. Good luck in your search.

[EricAllyn]

If you have a year till retirement, you might want to order now -- $500 down will get you in line, and it is fully refundable -- but Scamp has a 10-12 month wait time. We have a 13 on order but will be canceling since we found a rebuild 16.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Jim18655

Thinking things through - that's why I'm here asking questions.
Scamp had lower weights listed for the 13' trailer 1300 -1500...
The rear receiver was only for a 2 bicycle rack.
Toilet and shower because I don't know where we'll end up day to day...

So, starting from Scamp's numbers, which are dry weights for unloaded units before options or fluids...

The 1500# figure is probably the dry weight of the heavier model, the front bath version. I'll assume it includes everything in the bath/shower package. A/C adds about 50#. A furnace, about 25#. Awning, 30#, perhaps. The receiver (which includes an additional frame member) with a rack and two lightweight bicycles adds at least 100#, possibly more*. Fill one LP tank, 20# (a filled second tank adds another 40#). Very conservatively, your clothes, bedding, kitchenware, food, water, basic tools and trailer supplies, a couple of camp chairs... will add 200#.
*A rear bicycle rack can cause stability issues with a small trailer, and it's pretty hard on the bicycles, too. Something else to research in old threads...

I would not pull a fully-optioned front bath Scamp 13 with less than 2000# tow rating, and that would be for conservative driving in moderate conditions with brakes. If high elevations, mountain grades, hot temperatures, and/or strong winds are expected, I would want a larger margin. Remember, too, that tow ratings are based on a driver and passenger (at 150# each), and nothing else in the vehicle.

Lots to think about... but the biggest is that there's a mismatch here. You need to pare the trailer way down or consider a bigger vehicle to pull it. Tough choices, both.

One choice that does not add to the weight (or cost) is the "big bed" option, available since about 2014 on Scamp 13 standards. The regular bed, at 45"x76", is pretty tight for two. The "big bed" is 54"x76" and steals space from the closet and galley. It would be good to get inside both before deciding. Scamp's sales department has a referral program in which they set you up with nearby owners for a demo. They get a small check if you order, so it's a win-win-win.

Best wishes!

[k0wtz]

jon I have the bare-boned 13f I didn't look for a deluxe have no need for it I am camping right? I had an A-Liner it pulled just fine with my Ford Edge did I say I hated Ford?

I can tell you I think that Scamp must weight 500 more lb than that A-Liner I can just feel the difference. Saying that even before I am not taking out like a race car driver I read stories of guys driving normal tugs trying to run 55 up a mountain doing this they must be hitting all the gears no telling the rpm load. Don't these people know there is only so much wear and tear you can put on a tug let alone the camper.

Maybe they trade every year I don't do that wont do that! So what is the hurry going camping? For the life of me I do not understand I read I am running 70 to 80 on tires only rated at 65 that on a good day!

I could run a deluxe but what for? I camp the same way and even with a bathroom I wouldn't want to deal with filling with water draining stinky tanks.

Some things I just done understand not to knock anyone if that is what you want go for it!!

Scamper Bob Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[floyd]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

jon I have the bare-boned 13f I didn't look for a deluxe have no need for it I am camping right? I had an A-Liner it pulled just fine with my Ford Edge did I say I hated Ford?

I can tell you I think that Scamp must weight 500 more lb than that A-Liner I can just feel the difference. Saying that even before I am not taking out like a race car driver I read stories of guys driving normal tugs trying to run 55 up a mountain doing this they must be hitting all the gears no telling the rpm load. Don't these people know there is only so much wear and tear you can put on a tug let alone the camper.

Maybe they trade every year I don't do that wont do that! So what is the hurry going camping? For the life of me I do not understand I read I am running 70 to 80 on tires only rated at 65 that on a good day!

I could run a deluxe but what for? I camp the same way and even with a bathroom I wouldn't want to deal with filling with water draining stinky tanks.

Some things I just done understand not to knock anyone if that is what you want go for it!!

Scamper Bob Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I have towed my Scamp13D with a 2.3L normally aspirated FORD Escape for ten years, been over Moneagle several times at speed as well as across the Rockies to the west coast and over the Smokies as well.
My trailer tires are rated to 81MPH, but I tow rated my Escape to 60MPH.
The car has been used properly and is still in excellent condition.

My trailer has a bed cause I sleep, a kitchen cause I eat, a shower cause I wash, and a toilet cause I!

I still love the simpler approach (like yours) and the spirit of those who own them.
I too have owned many of them!
OH! Did I say I love Fords?

[Jon in AZ]

Floyd, you are forgetting to mention one significant difference: your Ford Escape was a stick shift. The Forester is a CVT automatic. Once you cede control of the drivetrain, you pretty much have to submit to the towing limitations of the manufacturer, with the transmission typically being the weak link.

You may say your new Transit Connect automatic has a full manual mode (which is a good thing, in my opinion, and I wish mine did), but there is still a computer between you and the machine second guessing your every decision.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Floyd, you are forgetting to mention one significant difference: your Ford Escape was a stick shift. The Forester is a CVT automatic. Once you cede control of the drivetrain, you pretty much have to submit to the towing limitations of the manufacturer, with the transmission typically being the weak link.

You may say your new Transit Connect automatic has a full manual mode (which is a good thing, in my opinion, and I wish mine did), but there is still a computer between you and the machine second guessing your every decision.

You are absolutely right!
Also there is no real substitute for power and strength.
For those in doubt, go overkill! Like my Ranger!

While I would prefer a stick, the manual mode is useful, especially in the higher gears.
Ford targeted 200,000 miles for that transmission in commercial service and it works pretty well for an automatic... should know for sure in about a decade!

[k0wtz]

Floyd not to ruffle your feathers I hate Fords stupid me I thought the Edge was the greatest thing on 4 wheels and I bought one but I am not saying anymore about that. Did you drive your rig from Gatlinburg to Cherookee? I want to know!


bob

[Tom 72]

Several here have addressed the laws of physics, including inertia and kinetic energy. Clearly some are more comfortable pushing the limits.

Wikipedia says about 33,000 die annually in car crashes, close to 100 a day. You or loved ones don't have to die for there to be life changing results.

Ever drive down the interstate and see skidmarks that cross 3 or 4 lanes? It makes you wonder what happened. Did someone have to suddenly swerve to avoid an idiot driver? What was the outcome?

If an accident resulted, you can bet on one outcome. Personal Injury Attorneys representing the victims will be checking the rigs of those at fault. Do you think those at fault will catch a break for being just a few hundred pounds over vehicle limits? What outcome would you want if you are the victim?

Stay safe.

[floyd]

Attachment 112259

Originally Posted by k0wtz

Floyd not to ruffle your feathers I hate Fords stupid me I thought the Edge was the greatest thing on 4 wheels and I bought one but I am not saying anymore about that. Did you drive your rig from Gatlinburg to Cherokee? I want to know!


bob

More than once, We love the Gatlinburg area and Smokie Mountain National Park is one of my favorite places in the whole world.
Also been up Mt Mitchell.
BTW; I'm not a big fan of the Edge SUV either but I love my 17YO Ranger Edge.