Researching!

[ORshepherd]

Hi all
I am a camper noob in every sense of the word, having only trailer camped once with a friend...but it was a ton of fun and I learned a lot.

I show dogs in several venues and most multi-day shows offer RV space, often with hook ups....so I am considering the leap. It would also be nice to just get outta Dodge on the weekends...

I drive a Volvo wagon that, as yet, has no tow package....and the recommended towing weight is 3300lbs.

I'm brimming with questions and hope you'll be patient!
Here's one
1. What is the lightest trailer with a wet bath and the most sq footage? I don;t know if you discuss aluminum or other materials...so, in terms of FG then.
thanks!
Liz

[Bob Miller]

In spite of all the wonderful names given to stick built trailers, such as "LITE", "Feather" and the ultimate, "Feather Lite", FGRV's will, size for size weigh less than them.


Now, first tell us more about your Volvo... We just did this dance with another Volvo owner and it turns out that 3300 lbs towing may not mean that you can tow 3300 lbs. Tell us your year and model. HINT: If has to do with maximum tongue weight that Volvo allows


Then take a look at the chart for real world trailer weights here:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html


There is only one 13' with a bathroom, the 13' Scamp, and that is tiny when you add in dogs and handlers...


So, for the most part you need to look at the listings that are 17' as most of them will have a bathroom and many are under 3300 lbs going down the road.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html


I will also add a link to the recent discussion on Volvo towing, but let us know the year and model you have.


Start with Post #37 and follow down from there. Note, this is a mixed content thread, follow Elpea's questions and the replies.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...e-70508-3.html

[ORshepherd]

Thanks Bob Miller. I have looking at the 17' Escape from BC/Canada...and I like that Lil Snoozy too. Casita, Scamp...I'm open.

Let's see. My Volvo XC 70 is new. Its got a 3Liter 6 cyl AWD Turbo charged engine.
I'll go have a look at that link. My manual says the same.



Max. trailer weights
Without brakes: 1650 lbs
With brakes, 1 7/8” ball: 2,000 lbs
With brakes, 2” ball: 3,300 lbs
MAX Tongue Weight: 165lbs

[ORshepherd]

I did find quite a bit in the Volvo forums. LIke this photo:

My name is Christopher C. Deam and I am the designer of the International CCD line of trailers.(Airstream) My custom built 2004 16' International CCD Bambi has been stolen. (he's got a V70)

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by ORshepherd

... My manual says the same.



Max. trailer weights
Without brakes: 1650 lbs
With brakes, 1 7/8” ball: 2,000 lbs
With brakes, 2” ball: 3,300 lbs
MAX Tongue Weight: 165lbs

So using the standard range of recommended tongue weights of 10-15 % of trailer weight, a tongue weight of 165 lbs means a trailer weight of 1100-1650. If (like I) you subscribe to the school of thought that says limit trailer weight to 75% of your rated max, then you can comfortable tow a trailer weighing between 825 and 1238 lbs.

Of course YMMV.

As is often the case, your tongue weight rating is the limiting factor.

[ORshepherd]

wow...that is super limiting. so what's up with the 3300 lb allowance???

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by ORshepherd

wow...that is super limiting. so what's up with the 3300 lb allowance???

Well that is a good question.. maybe the tongue weight limit can be increased with air bags or something.. or maybe its just marketing.

But please know that the limiting figures I listed are just one way of looking at things. One that I am comfortable with btw.

Going over 165 lbs on the tongue might affect handling, or maybe not so much.. or it might wear out the suspension faster.. sorry but I don't know the answers here, only the questions to ask.

[Bob Miller]

While I was digging around in Volvo manuals I see that Gordon brought up the same point we found for Elpea last week with her Volvo.


Per page 366 of the Volvo XC-70 manual


Yes, they show a 3300 towing limit but a 165 lb tongue weight. Because the towing weight is so much higher, you should be able to make full use of the tongue weight and using even an 8% ratio of tongue to trailer weight, that would let you tow about 2000 lbs. and still be within specification.


It's an unfortunate "Catch-22" that more and more vehicles are creating this conundrum of a hitch weight that is to low for the tow weight specification.


And YES, you will see and hear from those that consider manufacturers towing specifications to be suggestive, but the vast majority on the site have the opinion that manufacturers provide a specification for good reason, be it realistic or not.


You may want to open a dialoge with Volvo of North America for a practical explanation, but it's been that way on XC-70's for a number of years. You can go back and look at earlier owners manuals, most of which are available here, for confirmation.
http://www.volvocars.com/us/top/your.../Pages/om.aspx

[Glenn Baglo]

Tongue weight for my Escape 17B is 320-340 lbs. loaded for camping.

[ORshepherd]

Have a little trouble making sense of this...as did this guy:
Towing & Tongue Weight?

(I don't know if non members can see this...sorry if it's no good to you!)

[Bob Miller]

The European specifications for vehicles are often different from the U.S. models. Sometimes this reflects different components, sometimes if reflects different driving habits in Europe and sometime it doesn't seem to reflect anything that makes sense.


The bottom line is that U.S. version vehicles should be operated at the U.S. specification. There are insurance and liability reasons as well as possible mechanical reasons for adherence.


And again, others will disagree and do whatever they have made the decision to do, regardless of manufacturers specifications.


Here is an interesting read on the different rules for towing Caravans in some European countries, some of which may explain why higher limits are allowed/used.
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/oversea...s/speed-limits

[Pam Garlow]

I think that if you are camping alone you will be quite comfortable in a 13footer. From a personal perspective, I don't feel that losing the area to a seldom used bathroom is a good use of floor space. You also don't have to bother with emptying the black water tanks from a toilet. You might find that a basic 13footer without a wet bath will fit the bill for what you need. It will also be within your tow rating as well as your 165lb tongue weight.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by gordon2

So using the standard range of recommended tongue weights of 10-15 % of trailer weight, a tongue weight of 165 lbs means a trailer weight of 1100-1650. If (like I) you subscribe to the school of thought that says limit trailer weight to 75% of your rated max, then you can comfortable tow a trailer weighing between 825 and 1238 lbs. .

If (like I) you subscribe to the school of thought that says limit trailer weight to 75% of your rated max

This sounds like last weeks statement that ratings are reduced by 50% if you don't use a WD hitch.

Is there a reference for this statement or did we just hear this from some spurious person?

If this were true I could not tow my Scamp 16 with my Odyssey or a Ford Escape. If we make statements lie this we need to know where they come from and with what authority.

Last week I needed to buy a WD hitch to tow my Scamp 16, this week it sounds like I need to buy an F150.

[gordon2]

75% is just a personal comfort factor. I hope I did not imply that it was a vehicle manufacture's recommendation, governmental regulation or anything else other than a rule of thumb that some people like to follow.

Scamp 16 Stds come in around 2500 lbs, and with my Sienna rated to 3500/350 I am at 71.4 % (assuming 10% tongue weight). maybe more if I carry water, or up to 80 % for the heaviest Scamp 16 in the Real World Weights database. In any case, it's a safety AND performance margin I am comfortable with. I don't like to overwork my van.

Using this comfort factor, I can go to a tongue weight of 13.3 % of the trailer weight, without exceeding my tug tongue weight rating (and without using WDH).

[ORshepherd]

OK...Now I am totally confused. I understand what tongue weight is... Does having one or two axles matter? Can't you shift the weight in the trailer to affect it?

[ORshepherd]

Originally Posted by Pam Garlow

I think that if you are camping alone you will be quite comfortable in a 13footer. From a personal perspective, I don't feel that losing the area to a seldom used bathroom is a good use of floor space. You also don't have to bother with emptying the black water tanks from a toilet. You might find that a basic 13footer without a wet bath will fit the bill for what you need. It will also be within your tow rating as well as your 165lb tongue weight.

Bathroom!!! A must have for me!

[Glenn Baglo]

You can shift weight in the trailer to reduce tongue weight, with adverse effect on towing safety.
Tongue weight generally suggested is 12-15 per cent of trailer weight ( loaded to go ). Some use 10 per cent as a guide, but the further you reduce it, the more likely you are to induce sway and end up as a statistic.

[ORshepherd]

While researching more I came across this article in a Canadian RV magazine:

The XC70: Not Your Mother's Volvo - RV Lifestyle Magazine

Something's wrong with this picture!

[Bob Miller]

Yep, at least in my opinion, there is something very wrong with the picture.


Mr. Thompson, who owns CanAm RV in Canada, specializes in modification of vehicles so as to be able to tow trailers substantially in excess of manufacturers specifications. He does this, in part, by designing and installing elaborate, and usually very expensive, hitch receivers. In short, the article is promoting his own business.


His is the only business in the United Sate and Canada that openly promotes this practice. As Mr. Thompson is also an Airstream dealer, many of the pics seen of his work also involve the towing of Airstreams by vehicles with substantially lower towing limits.


By mutual agreement (?) the once common promotion of this business on this site, mostly by one airstream owner and CanAm fan, has been curtailed.


Specifications are specifications and, at least in the U.S. of A., the consensus is to respect them for the reasons mentioned earlier.

[honda03842]

Elizabeth,

What do you mean "Something's wrong with this picture"?