Scamp Barn find!

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by bobkatr1

We are planning to put the kitchen up front and since we have a fixed plexiglas front window replace it with a window that can be opened vs. installing a fan.

Back in the mid-70s, Scamp had a opening front window. They discontinued it when finding it was next to impossible to keep leak free. Driving in the rain expecially is problematic. Too, the plexi bends to match the compound curve. You'll have some fiberglassing to do to get a flat area for an opening window. Best of luck.

[Ian G.]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

The truth is that since I learned the Scamp that I bought had a bad torsion bar axle, I have become a bit discouraged. I now have to make a dicision whether I replace the axle in the next few days, or wait until I have repaired the insides. Or should I just sell the trailer before I start spending money on it? I guess I should explain that I'm a old man...even older than dirt, and twice as ugly!

So, I may use the trailer only once or twice a year.

But, enought about me! I really like your thoughts about moving the kitchen to the front! Heck, Scamp places a toilet and shower in that space...why not a kitchen.

What will you place in the existing kitchen space? Is there room for a two-person dinette?

I also nave no need for bunks, and may copy your front kitchen idea. Please post lots of photos showing your modifications as you go along.

Bill

Great find and platform to build from Bob

Your axle definitly needs replaceing, it would also be worth checking the frame. The front kitchen works great, just remember when modifying that there are 3 main structural components insade your Scamp, the closet beside the door, the 1"x1" sheel tube inside the hinge side of the door and the metal supprt rod between the upper and lower kitchen cabinets. Stucture in these areas needs to be maintained or the walls will sag and the roof can collapse in heavy snow areas.

Bob, in the condition your Scamp is in, any money you put into it will be easly returned if you sell. I would not be discouraged, slowly work on fixing it up, make it safe and clean, use it in the summer then "tinker" with it inthe winter. My project took 3 years to get to the stage it is at, but I never missed a summer of camping fun.
My Boler Build

Originally Posted by bobkatr1

Bill,

We are planning to put the kitchen up front and since we have a fixed plexiglas front window replace it with a window that can be opened vs. installing a fan. We are trying to squeeze a dinette in but are also looking at making the bed dinette in a u shape like Ian's 13' boler. While we are waiting for the axle we have time to figure it out. We plan to get the axle installed and do enough to get the shell back on and use her as we put her back together. We will need to make sure the structure is supported. Heard of one left over the winter that collapsed without cabinets to support it. Ours is called Hummingbird.

As Donna mentioned an opening front window in a Boler / Scamp is almost impossible. There were some "kit models" make that used a custom window which was manufactured with an angled frame, but they were difficult to seal. The front is cureved more and the window opening is acually a compund curve, getting anything flat to fit is difficult.

[mary and bob]

Do you really need a kitchen? In our Uhaul 13 we removed the stove and water hookup. Replaced ice box with a dorm fridge. All cooking is done outside. In our Casita 17 we only use the sink in the kitchen area. Haven't used the stove as we still cook outside. Do use the fridge and the dinette is nice to have.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Bob, your message couldn't have arrived at a better time!

The truth is that since I learned the Scamp that I bought had a bad torsion bar axle, I have become a bit discouraged. I now have to make a dicision whether I replace the axle in the next few days, or wait until I have repaired the insides. Or should I just sell the trailer before I start spending money on it? I guess I should explain that I'm a old man...even older than dirt, and twice as ugly!

So, I may use the trailer only once or twice a year.

But, enought about me! I really like your thoughts about moving the kitchen to the front! Heck, Scamp places a toilet and shower in that space...why not a kitchen.

What will you place in the existing kitchen space? Is there room for a two-person dinette?

I also nave no need for bunks, and may copy your front kitchen idea. Please post lots of photos showing your modifications as you go along.

Bill

Some thoughts, Bill…

First, regarding the axle. Yes, it will cost some money to replace, maybe $800. But keep this in perspective. You got this trailer for, what… $300? Once you get it fixed up and ready to camp, it could be worth $4000 or more, depending on how much work you put into it. And I don't think you have to do it first off. As long as the tires are not rubbing on the fiberglass in the wheel wells, you can tow it. I wouldn't take it cross-country or on really bad roads, but 25 miles to a nearby fishing lake should be fine. What you should do first off is repack the bearings and replace the tires. Regardless of tread, tires over 6 years old are unsafe. A date code is stamped in the sidewall.

Second, regarding the interior. I would strongly advise against making changes to the layout at this point. From your pictures, it looks like it has most of the fiberglass parts. Putting them back into their original configuration is simple. Redoing the layout, fiberglassing in roof support for a non-standard configuration, building custom cabinets- that's a lot of work, and too many times, people just give up and never get to enjoy using the trailer. Your goal should be to get the trailer into a minimally usable condition with as little work as possible. Changes can come later. Since you have a mattress, you don't need the dinette table for now. Just re-install the benches, cut a bridge to span the middle, and throw on the mattress. I don't remember seeing what the front looks like, but you could just lay a chaise cushion on the bench, add a few pillows, and have a comfortable sitting space in front. As to the kitchen, I wouldn't bother reinstalling the icebox. A portable ice chest is much more efficient. We use the icebox in ours (without ice) for storage of dry foods. I'd just make a door for the opening (or even a curtain across the opening) and use it for storage. I wouldn't plan to use the stove until you have had the propane system tested and brought up to date. Many people don't cook inside anyway (food smells in your bedroom…).

Third, about the floor. How extensive is the damage? If damage is just in the lower center part of the floor, replacement is easier: you will cut out the old floor, fit a new one, and screw it to the frame. I think you would want to do the whole thing in one piece because it's a fairly lightweight frame underneath, so you want to make sure the weight of a person walking on it is distributed across the whole frame. This would be a good time to inspect, clean, and paint that part of the frame. If the floor is damaged in the raised areas under benches and cabinets, that's harder. The shell is fiberglassed to the perimeter of the floor, so replacing the floor there involves cutting the fiberglass, replacing the floor, and re-fiberglassing the shell to the floor.

There is a lot of great help to be had here. I'd suggest a careful inspection of the entire floor and frame underneath, including hidden areas. Take some good pictures showing exactly where the damage is, and post what you find. From the responses you get you can decide if this project is for you or not. If you decide against, with just a thorough cleaning, inside and out, and reinstalling all the benches, you could probably triple or even quadruple your investment.

You have a treasure, here, Bill. Don't be discouraged. Start with modest goals and take it one step at a time. I think you can do this!

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by bobkatr1

Bill,

We are planning to put the kitchen up front and since we have a fixed plexiglas front window replace it with a window that can be opened vs. installing a fan. We are trying to squeeze a dinette in but are also looking at making the bed dinette in a u shape like Ian's 13' boler. While we are waiting for the axle we have time to figure it out. We plan to get the axle installed and do enough to get the shell back on and use her as we put her back together. We will need to make sure the structure is supported. Heard of one left over the winter that collapsed without cabinets to support it. Ours is called Hummingbird.

We are located near Mount St. Helens if you are in the neighborhood let me know.


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

Bob, last night when viewing hundreds of Gallery photos, I saw a photo where two boat seats, and upright mounts, were placed in the bunk's area of a Scamp 13. Simple and easy to install, but no storage!

How much do you believe the fiberglass shell weighs? Or, how many people did it take to lift the shell off the frame?

The parts department at Scamp told me today that the measurements of a new axle for my 1978 Scamp 13 should be Hub face to Hub face: 63". Frame to frame: 49 3/4" outside of frame. 45 3/4" inside of frame.

Are those measurements close to those for your trailer?

When towing my trailer home, I heard a very loud banging noise when hitting bumps. Did you experance any noises like that when towing your trailer.

Bill

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Ian G.

Great find and platform to build from Bob

Your axle definitly needs replaceing, it would also be worth checking the frame. The front kitchen works great, just remember when modifying that there are 3 main structural components insade your Scamp, the closet beside the door, the 1"x1" sheel tube inside the hinge side of the door and the metal supprt rod between the upper and lower kitchen cabinets. Stucture in these areas needs to be maintained or the walls will sag and the roof can collapse in heavy snow areas.

Bob, in the condition your Scamp is in, any money you put into it will be easly returned if you sell. I would not be discouraged, slowly work on fixing it up, make it safe and clean, use it in the summer then "tinker" with it inthe winter. My project took 3 years to get to the stage it is at, but I never missed a summer of camping fun.
My Boler Build

As Donna mentioned an opening front window in a Boler / Scamp is almost impossible. There were some "kit models" make that used a custom window which was manufactured with an angled frame, but they were difficult to seal. The front is cureved more and the window opening is acually a compund curve, getting anything flat to fit is difficult.

Ian, thanks for the gread advice, links, and information! Your Boler is beautiful!

The video of the window disassembling was of interest to me because I will need to replace the old "operator" controls on my windows. Is it possible to replace the operator control without removing the windows?

As I related to Bob, when towing my trailer home I heard a low bang when hitting a pot-hole or large bump. After viewing the photos you took of your old frame, i can't help but wonder if I also have frame problems, or will a bad axle cause a banging noise? What do you think?

Hoping that Scamp did a better job of welding frames than Boler!

Bill

[mary and bob]

Noise could be play in the vehicle hitch, between the receiver and ball mount. Do some research on hitch tighteners or anti rattle devices. For front seating I mounted a captains chair from a Casita (similar to boat seats) on top of the storage area. This was originally a pedestal mount seat, but the pedestal can be eliminated.

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Some thoughts, Bill…

First, regarding the axle. Yes, it will cost some money to replace, maybe $800. But keep this in perspective. You got this trailer for, what… $300? Once you get it fixed up and ready to camp, it could be worth $4000 or more, depending on how much work you put into it. And I don't think you have to do it first off. As long as the tires are not rubbing on the fiberglass in the wheel wells, you can tow it. I wouldn't take it cross-country or on really bad roads, but 25 miles to a nearby fishing lake should be fine. What you should do first off is repack the bearings and replace the tires. Regardless of tread, tires over 6 years old are unsafe. A date code is stamped in the sidewall.

Second, regarding the interior. I would strongly advise against making changes to the layout at this point. From your pictures, it looks like it has most of the fiberglass parts. Putting them back into their original configuration is simple. Redoing the layout, fiberglassing in roof support for a non-standard configuration, building custom cabinets- that's a lot of work, and too many times, people just give up and never get to enjoy using the trailer. Your goal should be to get the trailer into a minimally usable condition with as little work as possible. Changes can come later. Since you have a mattress, you don't need the dinette table for now. Just re-install the benches, cut a bridge to span the middle, and throw on the mattress. I don't remember seeing what the front looks like, but you could just lay a chaise cushion on the bench, add a few pillows, and have a comfortable sitting space in front. As to the kitchen, I wouldn't bother reinstalling the icebox. A portable ice chest is much more efficient. We use the icebox in ours (without ice) for storage of dry foods. I'd just make a door for the opening (or even a curtain across the opening) and use it for storage. I wouldn't plan to use the stove until you have had the propane system tested and brought up to date. Many people don't cook inside anyway (food smells in your bedroom…).

Third, about the floor. How extensive is the damage? If damage is just in the lower center part of the floor, replacement is easier: you will cut out the old floor, fit a new one, and screw it to the frame. I think you would want to do the whole thing in one piece because it's a fairly lightweight frame underneath, so you want to make sure the weight of a person walking on it is distributed across the whole frame. This would be a good time to inspect, clean, and paint that part of the frame. If the floor is damaged in the raised areas under benches and cabinets, that's harder. The shell is fiberglassed to the perimeter of the floor, so replacing the floor there involves cutting the fiberglass, replacing the floor, and re-fiberglassing the shell to the floor.

There is a lot of great help to be had here. I'd suggest a careful inspection of the entire floor and frame underneath, including hidden areas. Take some good pictures showing exactly where the damage is, and post what you find. From the responses you get you can decide if this project is for you or not. If you decide against, with just a thorough cleaning, inside and out, and reinstalling all the benches, you could probably triple or even quadruple your investment.

You have a treasure, here, Bill. Don't be discouraged. Start with modest goals and take it one step at a time. I think you can do this!

Jon, I do believe you are a true optimist if you bleieve I can do this!

However, your comments did raise my down-in-the-dumps feelings. I did find myself over thinking ever aspect of repairing and using the Scamp.

There is no doubt in my mind, that your suggestions about just replace the benches, etc, and not do any drastic modifications would be the best course of action for me. so that's what I will do. My original thoughts were to do the least i had to to use the trailer. I'd planned on removing the stove, and use a single burner butane stove. No runnig water system. Just bare bones camping.

As far as I can tell from my limited inspection of the floor, it is actually in good condition. There is only one small area at the far corner dinette area, on the street side, where there is a rotted out area. This area is about 12" long and about 6" wide. I have not been able to really inspect the area under the front bunk area.

I have done wood boat repairs using fiberglass cloth and tape, and removed and replaced rotten wood on boats, so I don't think that will be a problem. (famious last words!)

The floor is raw plywood, so I guess that someone started to restore the trailer and gave up. Not having to strip the floor is a plus!

My knee is much better now, and I'm hoping that by this weekend I will be able to remove all the loose fixtures and really inspect the insides. Crawing around on my knees is something that I can't do right now, but before long I should be fit again.

How would be the best way to inspect the frame? And what am I looking for? I'll have to jack it up at the four corners, to get my plump body underneath!

I will take photos!

Bill

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by mary and bob

Noise could be play in the vehicle hitch, between the receiver and ball mount. Do some research on hitch tighteners or anti rattle devices. For front seating I mounted a captains chair from a Casita (similar to boat seats) on top of the storage area. This was originally a pedestal mount seat, but the pedestal can be eliminated.

Mary and Bob,

If only that is the problem! I did notice when attaching the 2" ball to the receiver, there was more play than I thought should be there. I actually un hitched and checked that I did have a 2' ball and not a 1 7/8" ball.

I'll check the receiver as soon as I can. Most of the boat trailer receivers can be adjusted by tightening a bolt from the underside of the receiver.

Thanks for you suggestion!

Bill

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by mary and bob

Do you really need a kitchen? In our Uhaul 13 we removed the stove and water hookup. Replaced ice box with a dorm fridge. All cooking is done outside. In our Casita 17 we only use the sink in the kitchen area. Haven't used the stove as we still cook outside. Do use the fridge and the dinette is nice to have.

Sorry, but I missed your message until now!

When I first got the Scamp, a good friend John Madill, who owns a Compact Junior, advised me to just put a cot and reclinding chair in the trailer, and call it finished! John had removed his heavy LP bottle from his trailer, and doesn't use the water tank. he also uses a camping stove with small fuel canster.

My plan is to also not use the stove, and remove the LP tank. The water tank is gone from my scamp, so I won't worry about it now!

For what little cooking that I will do...mostly heating water...I'll use my old cheap Chinese's single burner table store.

http://oomur.pair.com/wwpotter/image...cartridges.JPG

Bill

[mary and bob]

I wouldn't jack the trailer up at all 4 corners, it may stress or distort the frame. My opinion that is. I have a heavy duty set of wood ramps that was used in a truck shop I worked in, I pull the trailer up on them and chock the wheels and leave the trailer hooked to whatever I used to get it up on the ramps. Where to jack is a whole other controversial topic you may want to research here.

[Jon in AZ]

Jack up one side at a time using a floor jack on the frame near the axle (never the axle itself). Let it down onto a jack stand (also on the frame near the axle). Repeat for the other side. Then adjust the front, deploy the stabilizer jacks at the back and level the whole thing out so that the weight is distributed among the jack stands, tongue jack, and rear stabilizers. Sounds complicated, but it takes about 5 minutes.

You're looking for cracks, deep rust, evidence of previous repairs, and anything that looks bent or twisted. Surface rust is normal.

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by mary and bob

I wouldn't jack the trailer up at all 4 corners, it may stress or distort the frame. My opinion that is. I have a heavy duty set of wood ramps that was used in a truck shop I worked in, I pull the trailer up on them and chock the wheels and leave the trailer hooked to whatever I used to get it up on the ramps. Where to jack is a whole other controversial topic you may want to research here.

My Goodness! Is there nothing "normal" about the Scamp trailers?

Thanks for the information! I do have a set of old metal auto ramps, something like the wooden ones you own. Finding them will be the problem.

I also used to have two wood ramps made from 3 sections of 2" X 12" boards, stepped so I would have three levels for my trailer/MH tires to rest upon. Very heavy to cart around, but nice when parking in uneven camp sites.

Bill

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Jack up one side at a time using a floor jack on the frame near the axle (never the axle itself). Let it down into jack stands (also on the frame near the axle). Repeat for the other side. Then adjust the front, deploy the stabilizer jacks at the back and level the whole thing out so that the weight is distributed among the jack stands, tongue jack, and rear stabilizers. Sounds complicated, but it takes about 5 minutes.

You're looking for cracks, deep rust, evidence of previous repairs, and anything that looks bent or twisted. Surface rust is normal.

Thanks Jon, your information will be very helpful!

I believe I can do that without damaging the trailer! Well, I hope so!

It's been raining here in OKC most of the day, so the ground is soft where the trailer is parked. I'll move it to a hard surface, as soon as I can do so without making ruts in the lawn. I'm in enough trouble as it is!

Bill

[Jon in AZ]

Bill, meant to ask... the bad spot on the floor... Is it under where the dinette benches go or in the middle? If so, which side? Does it go all the way to the edge? Does daylight show, or could you poke your finger through if you tried (please don't, though)?

When I was 22 and living in MD I brought home a 20-year-old VW Beetle. It was painted with primer and dripping oil. I told my Mom I was going to fix it up and drive it to AZ. I had never done anything more mechanically challenging than changing the oil in my parent's car. Mom was not happy. I kept at it and eventually she warmed to the project. Got me to AZ, but didn't get me back. (Actually, that had nothing to do with the car.) Eventually she got over that, too.

Keep at it!

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Bill, meant to ask... the bad spot on the floor... Is it under where the dinette benches go or in the middle? If so, which side? Does it go all the way to the edge? Does daylight show, or could you poke your finger through if you tried (please don't, though)?

When I was 22 and living in MD I brought home a 20-year-old VW Beetle. It was painted with primer and dripping oil. I told my Mom I was going to fix it up and drive it to AZ. I had never done anything more mechanically challenging than changing the oil in my parent's car. Mom was not happy. I kept at it and eventually she warmed to the project. Got me to AZ, but didn't get me back. (Actually, that had nothing to do with the car.) Eventually she got over that, too.

Keep at it!

Standing looking towards the rear dinette area, the bad spot is at the far right side, just where the corner curve is. I'm sure that I could see the daylight thru the hole.

Any suggestions?

Bill

[Jon in AZ]

I'm thinking this could probably be patched without replacing the whole dinette floor. The only concern I have is whether support for the shell is compromised at that corner since there isn't much frame support underneath. If you get a chance, post some pictures of the damaged area. Try to include some close-ups as well as some from a distance that clearly show the location and extent. It might be good to post them in a new thread in the "Owners Helping Owners" section.

At some point you will need to figure out why the damage occurred. Usually floor damage is caused by water leaking from above. In that corner, it could be the back window, the side window on that side, or possible the water line that used to run from the water tank to the sink. I assume the tank is gone, so that's a non-issue going forward. You can check the windows by spraying high pressure water from the outside and checking for moisture on the inside. I'd probably wait for dry weather to do this test. While you're at it you might as well test all the other windows and hatches. BTW- if you do find a window leak, do not use silicone caulk. It won't solve the problem and it will create more issues. There are better ways, and they aren't difficult.

[Jon in AZ]

Thinking about getting the interior up to "happy wife, happy life" condition with minimal work…

I don't know if you ran across this thread in your searches, but I thought about you when I saw it:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ics-68504.html

A few things they did fit your situation.

• They made a permanent bed in the dinette area, which you could do really easily, since you said you already have a brand-new mattress that fits the space.
• They removed the stove and sink and installed an attractive counter on top of the kitchen base. The holes are covered and you'd have a place to set up your butane burner.
• They removed the icebox and cut a door to cover the opening. Then they painted all the doors matching colors to brighten and unify the interior.

I can't tell what they did with the front end, but I'm guessing they turned it into a comfortable seating area.

With a little more work, you could make the front into a small dining area. Basically you cut out the center of the existing bench and put a small table in the middle.
From this:

To this:


Both of these trailers have the original Ensolite wall covering that has been cleaned up, caulked, and painted. The second has obviously had some professional painting and upholstery work done, but you wouldn't have to go that far.

[BAMA & Pachyderm Posse]

Bill what part of OK I am in ft smith AR and restoring a 13 trail mite , just bought a Dexter torsion bar 45 % down axle at ark trailer in ft smith with mount brackets for $328.00 BUILT FROM SCRATCH if you are close maybe we can get together .

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Thinking about getting the interior up to "happy wife, happy life" condition with minimal work…

I don't know if you ran across this thread in your searches, but I thought about you when I saw it:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ics-68504.html

A few things they did fit your situation.

• They made a permanent bed in the dinette area, which you could do really easily, since you said you already have a brand-new mattress that fits the space.
• They removed the stove and sink and installed an attractive counter on top of the kitchen base. The holes are covered and you'd have a place to set up your butane burner.
• They removed the icebox and cut a door to cover the opening. Then they painted all the doors matching colors to brighten and unify the interior.

I can't tell what they did with the front end, but I'm guessing they turned it into a comfortable seating area.

With a little more work, you could make the front into a small dining area. Basically you cut out the center of the existing bench and put a small table in the middle.
From this:
Attachment 81547
To this:
Attachment 81548

Both of these trailers have the original Ensolite wall covering that has been cleaned up, caulked, and painted. The second has obviously had some professional painting and upholstery work done, but you wouldn't have to go that far.

Jon, those were some great suggestions! Thank you very much for the photos and link. I like the idea of a solid kitchen counter, and the addition of a door for the old ice-box area.

Later, I might make the front bunk area into a two seat dinette. I do like idea of a fixed bed, and front dinette.

I had thought that today I would be able to remove the mattress, and dinette seats, take some photos, and start doing a bit of clean-up.

However, I woke up this morning with my knee worse than yesterday! I am such a whimp, and my dear long suffering wife told me that if I went near the Scamp...she would kill me!

Back to the doctor on Monday!

Please be assured that I value each message posted here. I have made copies to refer to later when I can do more than whine!

Bill