Even the RV Industry Knows They Have PROBLEMS! - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-29-2017, 01:29 PM   #41
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Mike Magee: As long as the funnies are short enough, I have the time to figure them out and enjoy them. But at some point and length, I don't have the time or interest, and then I don't get the gist. I have other things to do than pour over deliberate wastes of my time.

Took me a few moments to figure out what you meant by "I dont no boat..."
Finally I read it out loud and there it was. If it had been a lot longer comment, I'd probably have gone on to something else that made more sense. As it was, it was funny, mostly because it was short and new. Fresh material is always funnier than old, rehashed stale comments.

There was a scene in The Odd Couple where Oscar Madison is screaming, "You signed your note "FU!" It took me TWO HOURS to figure out you meant Felix Unger!"

So, it didn't take me two hours, and I did smile, but it also felt like you were defending being deliberately obscure. It's one thing if you really cannot do better; it's another if you do it to sort of slap people in the face thinking you're being funny at their expense.

I agree with the posts that suggest consideration for the reader is most important. If one doesn't care how your writing sounds to others, you might as well go and perform in front of a mirror with your "self-indulgent nonsense" as Simon Cowell might say on American Idol.

Humor is best used as a seasoning, not as the whole meal. IMHO, anyway.

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Old 10-29-2017, 01:35 PM   #42
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rbryan: "Use a little effort. It shows you care not only about what you post, but those who read it. Consider it akin to following the rules of the road, saying please or thank you, and opening the door when someone has their hands full."



I totally agree. If you can do it well, then do it! People notice and people care. It makes your message so much clearer to present it with care.

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Old 10-29-2017, 01:40 PM   #43
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And, despite the previous claims to the contrary, proper spelling and punctuation are vital to business success - at least in my case. It shows a level of competency and attention to detail that my customers appreciate.
I have found this to be absolutely true and essential in my business too. I spend a lot of time on descriptive letters that convey a sense of understanding and thoroughness. When you put yourself on the same side of the problem as the customer (reader), and you look at the problem together with care and understanding, you gain an ally that will work with you and trust you. I built a successful business on this kind of careful communication. When I discover a typo in a sent letter, it's embarrassing.

And then you have descriptive stories that are intended to arouse powerful emotional responses. The flow is important. Any stops, to try and interpret what was meant, are jarring breaks in the image being created. It's as though the film broke while watching a movie.
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Old 10-29-2017, 01:57 PM   #44
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What a headache

A family member bought a new 19ft towable -not fiberglass-but a well known brand.
After the first camping trip they noticed the wheels rubbing on the wheelwell.
Took it in to the dealer and it took 6 months to get a new axel installed-under warranty.
This summer they discovered mice in the trailer but could see no place for them to get in.
A look underneath, they found an opening that you could put your fist through.
More work for the owner-he found a way to seal the opening.
Then some leaking around a window.
He said you could see poor workmanship in many places.
They wish they had looked closer before buying.
Thats why we like fiberglass campers.
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Old 10-29-2017, 02:18 PM   #45
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Rich,

I've found this to be true with earlier trailers I've purchased too. From poor materials, to poor techniques to just plain poor workmanship.

It's funny too, that when a trailer gets a great reputation going, people will overlook problems as though they don't exist, or at least put them in a different category than "lousy construction". Oliver and Airstream fit this picture.

Even appearance is captivating. Something that looks good, or inspires imagination, must be good. Fiberglass trailers are a good example - they are so cute, they must be good.
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Old 10-29-2017, 03:01 PM   #46
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Rich and Rei:

Oh, I so agree with you about liking fiberglass trailers!

Not much in Peanut now that we can't fix...partly because we kept it super simple to suit our capabilities.

And having redone it almost entirely, ourselves, there's little we can blame now on anyone else. And no waiting for some dealer or shop to approve and then come through with repairs. That kind of thing drives us nuts.

And that's a reason why we like a used fiberglass trailer.

I see we've come full circle to the original post--what will the dealers do about quality control (more or less)...and as I'm sure some stated, little or nothing unless it's in their financial best interests.

That's mainly why a lot of people do a lot of things, including us--financial interest. Even after all our repairs on Peanut, it's still a better deal than a new, say, "FeatherLite" from Jayco. $14,999 plus tax, tabs, and the overload device, and who knows what all else. We're way ahead and have a lighter, easier to tow, easier to maintain trailer and we set it up OUR way, didn't have to accept & pay for what Jayco thought we wanted.

Quality Control is strictly on us now.

Kai
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Old 10-29-2017, 03:06 PM   #47
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Raspy: I find myself agreeing again.

The appearance is important! Those trailers we looked at the summer of 2015 all looked "alike" to me; no, the Jaycos didn't look like the R-Pods but each kind looks like every other iteration of the same kind. You've seen one R-Pod, you've seen them all. I love how our trailers are so unique. At the Dash Point SAFE in September near Seattle, every trailer was different. Even those that were similar were still not clones.

And every one was appealing for its own qualities. Looks, space use, size, amenities or simplicity...

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Old 10-29-2017, 06:47 PM   #48
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solution

here is the best solution I know just put me on your egnore list! pretty simple!

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Old 10-29-2017, 07:03 PM   #49
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here is the best solution I know just put me on your egnore list! pretty simple!

bob
I'm curious, Bob. How will ignoring you fix the dreadful quality control in the RV industry?
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:16 PM   #50
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here is the best solution I know just put me on your egnore list! pretty simple!

bob

I don't want to ignore you Bob. I enjoy your posts, but I wish it was easier to understand what you are trying to say. That's just me, not you.
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Old 11-01-2017, 10:17 AM   #51
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instant gratification and disposible lifestyle

I doubt that anyone would argue about the lack of quality in almost every RV produced today. Laura and I tried very hard to spend thousands of dollars to purchase a new unit and we just couldn't allow ourselves to be duped into purchasing a name plate like some of those mentioned here simply to be forced to spend more money in repairs to for a new trailer that should have been perfect from the start. Prices from $25k-$100k and nothing to show for the expense of some of those units. Yuck.

I believe that the consumer is to blame for most of these issues as was illustrated by an example posted earlier in this thread. We've know many consumers, both in the RV industry as well as others, that were perfectly happy spending their money to purchase the convenience of a product and the "planned obsolescence" of the product; meaning that many consumers simply throw things away and buy new instead of providing for normal maintenance and better care of their "things."

It's embarrassing to consider buying a trailer that is three or four years old to know that the PO didn't care for the trailer correctly when you can see signs of delamination and mold as indicators for serious problems in the not-too-distant future. The manufacturers won't change until the consumer demands change and forces the economics of the industry to adapt. The power to affect change is in the hands of the consumer.

We've purchased another fiberglass trailer that we expect will need some renovation and we're going in with our eyes open. It has already been asserted here that FG trailers are more forgiving, more durable and easier to maintain. I don't think it's about the roofs or the holes or the windows. It's simply a question of more stable materials and ease of maintenance and repair.

When we shopped, we slowly realized that every trailer we were considering was being compared to our old Scamp and the ease of maintenance just couldn't measure up. Looking forward to our new-to-us Bigfoot as the adventures continue.
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Old 11-01-2017, 10:41 AM   #52
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rv industry

strange thing I have purchased cars with 100k on them put another 100k with no problems. Why is this? My thoughts sometimes I didn't know the owners but they took car of their car.

in turn I have seen rvs with hardly no years on them that looked like a dump! we cannot always blame the manufactures!

bob
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:10 PM   #53
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We have become accustomed to the reliability of modern automobiles and expect the same from RVs. First-time RV buyers, especially, are shocked by the difference.

RV manufacturing today is less like building a car and more like building a house, with a long punch list at the end. Except the QC inspector is more often the buyer.

Whether expecting automotive-level reliability is reasonable or not is debatable. Automakers spend billions on R&D and plant upgrades, recouped over hundreds of thousands of worldwide sales for a single model. RV makers do not enjoy such economies of scale. Even so, they could do better. Much better.

Competition alone does not improve quality as long as everyone is doing the same thing. It really takes just one company to figure out how to produce a better-made RV without increasing the cost significantly. One missing piece is independent data collection and reporting of RV reliability.

I see a couple of things in your post that strike me as misconceptions. One QC or QC manager. The assumed misconception that you can inspect quality in. No you can't. It has to built in.
Assumed misconceptions is scale of quantity. Where the automobile and housing industry sell millions of product RVs are a much smaller potential market numbers. This alone changes the business model.
Competition is quite high as it is and therefore any savings goes directly to the bottom line.
This doesn't mean they can't do better, I believe that the way RVs generally are manufactured and the fact that they are on wheels makes it much harder to design and build a reliable, leak proof RV.
There's only a handful of molded fiberglass trailer manufacturers. The start up costs are very high and reliability is always questionable when prices are set by established manufacturers.
Along with the change in business paradigm. It used to be the norm for business to say something like "our people are our most important assets" Today employees are considered liabilities and to eliminated if at all possible and of course paid the minimum possible.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:47 PM   #54
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I see a couple of things in your post that strike me as misconceptions. One QC or QC manager. The assumed misconception that you can inspect quality in. No you can't. It has to built in.
Assumed misconceptions is scale of quantity. Where the automobile and housing industry sell millions of product RVs are a much smaller potential market numbers. This alone changes the business model.
Competition is quite high as it is and therefore any savings goes directly to the bottom line.
This doesn't mean they can't do better, I believe that the way RVs generally are manufactured and the fact that they are on wheels makes it much harder to design and build a reliable, leak proof RV.
There's only a handful of molded fiberglass trailer manufacturers. The start up costs are very high and reliability is always questionable when prices are set by established manufacturers.
Along with the change in business paradigm. It used to be the norm for business to say something like "our people are our most important assets" Today employees are considered liabilities and to eliminated if at all possible and of course paid the minimum possible.
There are different kinds of quality. One is the quality of the design and materials used. This means things like, did we use heavy enough steel in the frame, are the skylights UV inhibited, are the electronics reliable? The other is the quality of the construction work, such as, are things straight, are screws stripped, are the tank fittings in the right place?
The first is a design issue, the second is an inspection issue.
Then, the threshold for pass or fail has to be established to know if the unit passes or not. How far out of plumb are the windows allowed to be? Etc.
Nothing is ever perfect and companies need to build quick and get products out the door. So then the issue becomes a matter of company reputation. Who is the buyer and what are they likely to notice? How likely is it that the product can make it through the warrantee period? How much inner and unnoticeable goodness should be added if it can't be seen?
Employees are a big issue. Pay is not the determiner of good character, honesty, ability to do the work or reliability. Training is extremely important. This includes company philosophy, detailed procedural trailing, proper tools and materials available and expectations.

Unfortunately, it seems many of the manufacturers are continually trying to give less, build cheaper and quicker, and sell more with trendy appearance items and strong sales techniques. They sell image, not inner goodness. They sell escape from reality and they are perfectly happy to keep on selling the same old junk that provably fails.

The other thing is size. Sheesh! I see these huge 5th wheel monsters coming down the road and just have to wonder. Where are they planning to "camp" with that? Certainly nowhere that has trees or narrow roads. They won'y be towing it in poor weather or when it's windy. The towing stress alone would be too much to allow any fun in the trip.

Buyer beware!

But really, if a young buyer goes in looking for a 1000 watt stereo and outside big screen TV, and they are shown manageable payments, they are likely to buy. No regard to roof quality, depreciation, cabinets falling apart in the showroom, lousy tires, etc.

I've learned my lesson and I just shake my head at the things I see in the industry. There will always be another buyer willing to not see what will surely cause them trouble shortly.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:45 PM   #55
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I can't sweat the lack of quality in the RV industry, or the ignorance of the average buyer. All I can do is make sure I don't fall into the same trap.
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Old 11-01-2017, 04:04 PM   #56
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I can't sweat the lack of quality in the RV industry, or the ignorance of the average buyer. All I can do is make sure I don't fall into the same trap.
Exacly my thought. And if more people avoided the trap, the quality would have to improve.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:32 PM   #57
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When we drive down I-5, we pass a number of YUGE trailer sales lots, and I shudder. So many, many rigs for sale, so many being sold all the time, and so few new campgrounds being built. Maybe built-in obsolescence will help keep some camping sites open into the future when the new rigs start breaking and becoming driveway ornaments.

I like to think Peanut is functional and ornamental in the driveway. I LIKE to think so.

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Old 11-01-2017, 09:39 PM   #58
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When we drive down I-5, we pass a number of YUGE trailer sales lots, and I shudder. So many, many rigs for sale, so many being sold all the time, and so few new campgrounds being built.

Kai
+10 Little to no additional campground capacity added at the same time RV industry has had record sales, each year beating the prior record, for several years in a row.

Baby boomers rapidly reaching retirement age, and many are hitting the road with their new RVs.
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:08 AM   #59
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quality and supply

well I go by campers world and I see hundreds of campers I go down the interstate a little farther and a new guy has sprung up and now has a hundred or so setting there.

I know him and I know he does not have that sort of money for that amount of inventory so the manufactures must be stocking these dealers with trailers.

apparently quality doesn't enter into the equation of purchasing a tt these days if it ever did.

I think I will stick with my 22 year old ridiculous looking 13f scamper!!

bob
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Old 11-02-2017, 07:22 AM   #60
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The RV industry has had numerous boom cycles before. Campgrounds, especially publicly owned campgrounds that provide a meaningful outdoor experience, have been stagnant or declining for decades. So nothing really new.

Lots of RV parks sprouting up, often in conjunction with casinos, to take up the slack. One near me just completed a major expansion. Don't know how many sites they have now, but it's practically its own zip code. It's pretty nice for what it is: nestled in a ponderosa forest, some space between sites, not lined up like a trailer park. With monthly rates and full utilities including cable and broadband, it serves as a summer home for many retired boomers and supports the economy of a Native American tribe.

Good news is we are approaching the beginning of the end for baby boomer retirement. Birth rates tend to be cyclical, too. Things will look a lot different in another twenty years.

Meantime, with a little planning or going off-grid it's still possible to go camping. In a way I'm glad we are seeing acres of giant RVs for sale. If I saw acres of small trailers akin to my Scamp, then I'd be really worried!
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