Negotiating the price on our new Toyota Sienna.

[Candi Woods]

Since everyone seems to be buying, or at least looking at, new tow vehicles, I think a new topic is in the makings here.

Anybody want to share stories or helpful tips about buying a new rig?

I've never bought a new vehicle all on my own before. The last time my husband did everything and then we just went down to get it in our small town. There wasn't much negotiating on price or finance etc. I just signed the paperwork. This time was different and I really did a lot of legwork, research and negotiating for the price. Since most of this was on the internet I didn't have to leave my house until I went down to see the vehicles themselves. And even then, I knew what cars each dealership had and what amenities and options were included with each model they had in stock. The internet is an amazing tool! I was pleasantly surprised by how much fun it was for me. The best part was choosing the price we could afford and haggling with the salesperson to get it for what we wanted and not what they were asking. It was so amusing working with the different dealers, making my offers, their declining it and then calling me back just thirty minutes later with a counter offer, etc. In the end, I paid a price that was almost $5,000 below what they were asking for the vehicle. Got stuck with a poor APR, though, I think I let my guard down a little and should have been more willing to walk away. They may have called me back the next day. If my husband and I pay it off early we will have gotten a steal of a deal, a good reason why paying money up front makes sense.

Anybody need me to buy them a car?

Candi

[Roger H]

Candi, one of the first things to do when you're car shopping is to call your local lender and see what you can get for interest. Typically your credit union will be a couple of points below your commercial banks. Once you have that interest rate, and a commitment to loan, AND you've done your homework on the make and model you want, THEN go to your dealership.

When I walk in, I find the car I want and I give the salesman the opportunity to give me two numbers; the dollars they want for their car, and the dollars they'll give me for mine (if I'm doing a trade-in). Actually I like getting the price on THEIR car over the phone. No hassles, I'm not stuck there playing the 'game', and I can always call the next dealer. I know what is a good deal for both my car and theirs, having already done my homework, and I'm prepared to walk if they don't meet both. I don't listen to payments, and I'm not interested in how good a deal I can get on a lease and I'm up front and matter-of-fact about it. If they start into the "what payment are you looking for" nonsense, I walk. Once I have the numbers and they're satisfactory, then I tell them that I can get my money for whatever percentage rate I can get it for, but if they can beat that, I'll let them finance it and get the spiff on the loan. Dealers always get a cut of every loan their F & I guys write. I have yet to have a dealership tell me that they can't beat the rate.

After all's said and done, I get the car I want at a reasonable price, a reasonable amount for my trade, and my financing is good.

Roger

[Art Davis]

Candi,

Don't know what you are planning to tow with your new Sienna, but you might be interested in the following url:
http://www.casitaclub.com/forums/index.php...ic=7121&hl=
This is what happened to us after purchasing a Sienna to tow a 17 foot Casita. There are a couple of other threads that illustrate the fact that folks don't like to see people towing with a minivan.

On the other hand, I think our Sienna is a marvelous vehicle. It is a superbly engineered car, and---so far---seems to tow our small TT like a charm!

So, this is not to discourage you, just to prepare you for what you might encounter from others who are fairly opinionated about tow vehicles.

Good luck.


Art

[Candi Woods]

Candi,

Don't know what you are planning to tow with your new Sienna, but you might be interested in the following url:
http://www.casitaclub.com/forums/index.php...ic=7121&hl=
This is what happened to us after purchasing a Sienna to tow a 17 foot Casita. There are a couple of other threads that illustrate the fact that folks don't like to see people towing with a minivan.

On the other hand, I think our Sienna is a marvelous vehicle. It is a superbly engineered car, and---so far---seems to tow our small TT like a charm!

So, this is not to discourage you, just to prepare you for what you might encounter from others who are fairly opinionated about tow vehicles.

Good luck.
Art

Art,
Good thing I'm not that interested in "image". Well, at least not in the vehicle that we pull our camper with. I have a happy family that now has room to bring their friends along on our adventures, and I haveseat warmers! (I wonder when they;ll come out with seat coolers) It's a little sad that people didn't approve of your van, the funny things people draw lines about. Anyway's, our van is bigger than our camper, room for overflow occupancy if we have guests spending the night.

Candi

[Candi Woods]

Candi, one of the first things to do when you're car shopping is to call your local lender and see what you can get for interest. Typically your credit union will be a couple of points below your commercial banks. Once you have that interest rate, and a commitment to loan, AND you've done your homework on the make and model you want, THEN go to your dealership.

When I walk in, I find the car I want and I give the salesman the opportunity to give me two numbers; the dollars they want for their car, and the dollars they'll give me for mine (if I'm doing a trade-in). Actually I like getting the price on THEIR car over the phone. No hassles, I'm not stuck there playing the 'game', and I can always call the next dealer. I know what is a good deal for both my car and theirs, having already done my homework, and I'm prepared to walk if they don't meet both. I don't listen to payments, and I'm not interested in how good a deal I can get on a lease and I'm up front and matter-of-fact about it. If they start into the "what payment are you looking for" nonsense, I walk. Once I have the numbers and they're satisfactory, then I tell them that I can get my money for whatever percentage rate I can get it for, but if they can beat that, I'll let them finance it and get the spiff on the loan. Dealers always get a cut of every loan their F & I guys write. I have yet to have a dealership tell me that they can't beat the rate.

After all's said and done, I get the car I want at a reasonable price, a reasonable amount for my trade, and my financing is good.

Roger

Good info.

I actually called our insurance company and our local bank to get some financing information before I went down. The first quote the dealership gave was way over both and I didn't agree to it. The next one was equal to what our insurance company would finance, which was lower than the bank. I think I could have gotten it lower but my husband said what may have sounded like an approval and the finance officer would not budge from then on. If I had walked away, who knows? My husband is not the dickering type, but if he was happy with it, I could live with it.

Most of the work was done over the phone or e-mail. If a salesperson offered something over the phone then I always requested an e-mail to verify it. Interesting how some were relunctant to do so, maybe because it was printable and in writing and they had to be sure the offer was good before they would e-mail it.

We didn't have a trade in car, but next time it would make perfect sense to find that out first, as well. I didn't get much run around at the dealership because I didn't even talk to the salesperson at the lot til I got an offer worth looking at. Then it was pretty smooth.

Candi

[Brian B-P]

I'm not good at negotiating, but I have some idea what I should do to get a good deal.

I'm not entirely sold on the phone-quote thing, as those quotes can be suspect. Sometimes they are higher than the dealership expects to actually get, because in any negotiation you don't start with the price you are willing to settle for. Other times they can be too low, because they conveniently forget some extra-cost item, and the sales rep needs to get you in the door. On the other hand, staying out of your opponent's home turf can be good, and the phone is as much your turf as theirs.

I think trade-ins are a potential quagmire. Sometimes you can't tell how much of the new vehicle price is being paid back to you in the unrealistic price for your trade-in, and so it can be hard to tell if you should sell it privately instead. I think a reasonable approach is to consider trading in if that dealership is likely to actually want your old car (same brand, newer model, etc), because if they're just going to flip it to a wholesaler they can't give you much for it.


About Art's Casita club experience...

The concerns raised in the Casita forum are generally valid (that is, worth carefully considering), and the same ones typically raised here. It would be better if people did a little more research before posting, to avoid looking silly by suggesting that a Sienna and Previa are similar, for instance (the Sienna has a much longer wheelbase and much more power).

The idea that to tow a 3000 lb trailer the tug needs a 5000 lb rating is not uncommon, and I suppose if you blindly look only at one limit, you should allow lots of room for error on that one!

And then there's the person who got all worked up about how exceeding the limits would be so bad, when Art was planning no such thing.

I think it's strange that the Casita salesman said the Sienna wouldn't be adequate: RV sales staff are famous for recommending wild combinations which the tow vehicle manufacturer would never endorse, in order to close the sale.

Anyway, in the end everything confirms that Candi's Sienna is a perfectly good tow vehicle - for this purpose - which is nice given the great deal!

Oh yes... Art, I'm glad you took my suggestion in SiennaClub.org and checked out FiberglassRV, although you had already found CasitaClub.

[Candi Woods]

Great deal? Guess what I just looked up? I just found a new rebate and financing special that started two days after our purchase. They're offering .6% APR less than what we are paying. No wonder they wouldn't go any lower! Who knows, though, maybe they wouldn't have taken my offer if I had waited til today to make it. Everythings a gamble...

Candi

[Craig Nold]

Brian made some good points here. Having worked for a new car dealership, I believe that dealers are entitled to make a profit ….. as long as it’s not my money. My Land Cruiser never needed dealer service for as long as I owned it but on occasion, it required something from the parts department. Ever time I would drive on to a dealer’s lot, some new salesman would come running. It was always the same story. “We have buyers for a LC like yours and will give top dollar for your trade.” Out of curiosity, I called one’s bluff and after pushing the pencil for almost an hour, he made an offer. It looked good on paper but after cutting through all the smoke and mirrors, I was getting $950.00 for a trade-in that had a Blue Book value of almost ten grand.

I’m not sold on the phone thing either. They will tell you anything to get you on their turf. One day, I was driving by the dealership when I spied a red Tundra on the back row. To avoid the salesmen, I came back after hours to have a look at the sticker and make a few notes. It was equipped with the options that I wanted. Later that night, I went to the Internet site of one of those no-dicker dealership and found a Tundra with the same equipment. It would be an 800 mile trip but for that kind of savings, I could take two days out of my busy life. Knowing that even no-dicker-sticker dealers have other ways to line their pockets with my money, I called my banker. Bankers are a great source of information on new car prices. We came up with a price that was below that of the Wisconsin dealership. He suggested I try it on a local dealer and he made out a bank check for the agreed upon amount. I handed it to the first salesman that came my way. Five minutes later, he came back with a counter offer that included document prep and he looked offended when I asked for the check back. I drove my new truck home that afternoon.