Pricing - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-08-2007, 09:30 AM   #15
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Trailer: 1986 U-Haul CT13 ft
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Prices don't just come out of thin air. How much have you already invested in design and gearing up for production? How many units can you make? How much will it cost you in labor and materials to produce them? How much to market them? And how much money do you need to make in order to make the effort worthwhile? (And don't forget sales and income taxes!)

Add it all up, divide by the number of units you can reasonably expect to sell, and you'll be pretty close to your bottom-line price.

Only after that can you see how you stack up against the competition.
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Old 03-08-2007, 09:40 AM   #16
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Trailer: 2007 Casita Liberty (Sold 2011)/ Honda Odyssey
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Good luck with your trailer! You have some nice extra features included, and I think it's like a premium Scamp 13' so maybe $9,000-$10,000.

You might want to make the main picture on your website show the trailer more than the truck, and lighten it up a bit.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:50 AM   #17
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Genesis
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The water tanks are very well sized, great capacity, do they have a water level monitoring system?
There is a tank and battery monitoring panel. You push a button for each of the tanks or battery and the level is displayed.

Steve
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:06 PM   #18
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Genesis
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Prices don't just come out of thin air. How much have you already invested in design and gearing up for production? How many units can you make? How much will it cost you in labor and materials to produce them? How much to market them? And how much money do you need to make in order to make the effort worthwhile? (And don't forget sales and income taxes!)

Add it all up, divide by the number of units you can reasonably expect to sell, and you'll be pretty close to your bottom-line price.

Only after that can you see how you stack up against the competition.
Hello Jack-

Certainly, all of your points are valid. We understand that knowing our costs are critical, and please rest assured we know them all too well. Based on those costs we arrived at our original MSRP. The problem is, the reality of how the market values our product will determine what price we are able to obtain for our efforts, and we will have to adjust our thinking and product to meet the demands of the market. Therefore, this we will do.

We are committed to production. We have delivered the first units to our dealers and are in process on 10 units in the shop at this time. Further to this, we have material on the way for additional production. Time will tell the story, sooner then later, I think.

Steve
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:29 PM   #19
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Name: Cathy
Trailer: In the Market
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While I realize it is too late at this point, it might have been better to build a couple prototypes and have them taken camping across country. Unfortunately there really isn't a for sure method to know how the consumer will react to your product until you get it out there. Everyone has always been anxious to discuss a new RV everywhere we have been and RVers/campers are often the most chatty people we have meant. While pricing is important, establishing the demand for a unit that combines a small TT with a teardrop would be equally important as if I don't have a desire for a product, no price would be right. It is a beautiful little trailer. Are you doing any RV shows? They can be expensive but you need a way to introduce your product. Although it isn't my business, I do wonder what kind of research you did prior to starting this business venture. I continue to wish you well and hope to see an update of how things are going with your business. Cathy
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:47 PM   #20
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Name: Mr
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Steve - I haven't chimed in here on the site for quite some time, but I just wanted to speak up and say a few things. First of all, I think that your trailer looks as though you have put a lot of effort in. The outside galley is obviously getting mixed reviews. I have a 13' Scamp Deluxe with the front bathroom, so that is where I am basing my comparisons. I have a full inside galley, but if the weather allows, I prefer to cook outside -- keeps the camper clean and smell-free, doesn't get it all hot and humid, etcetera. I have a front bathroom, and I wouldn't be without it, even in such a small camper. I have all the options, much like your unit. I weigh 1800 lbs. So, I am significantly lighter than you, and one foot longer.

However, your camper looks to be well built. I know I will raise a ruckus by saying this, but the truth is, Scamps are very poorly built. Don't get me wrong -- I love my Scamp. It is a 1987 and it is still in great condition, and will last for decades longer. So, it is obviously far superior in build quality than most stickies, but it is still poorly built -- press-board floor, very thin fiberglass, rivets through the shell, lousy doors, cheap, cheap, cheap. It simply doesn't live up to my standards for "quality". But, it is now 20 years old and just getting started. What this tells me is that you may have put too much quality in for the mass market. There are people out there who want quality, and will pay more for it when they see it. There are also people who love the teardrop mindset, but have reached the stage where they want a little more. Those groups will probably be your market.

What does a loaded Scamp 13 Deluxe sell for these days? $13K? I haven't looked in a long time. The new EggCamper 17, which I'm told is high quality, sells for $11K - $16K, based on options. There is a big space difference between yours and theirs.

If I lived in a fair-weather climate, I'd probably be open to an outside galley. Where I live, I'd not be opposed to it, but I'd really like to have at least a tent enclosure that I could put up to cut wind and rain.

I really appreciate your desire to build the best trailer you can, without cutting corners, and still be open minded to listen to the concerns of this group. I wish you all the best.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:51 PM   #21
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Genesis
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While I realize it is too late at this point, it might have been better to build a couple prototypes and have them taken camping across country. Unfortunately there really isn't a for sure method to know how the consumer will react to your product until you get it out there. Everyone has always been anxious to discuss a new RV everywhere we have been and RVers/campers are often the most chatty people we have meant. While pricing is important, establishing the demand for a unit that combines a small TT with a teardrop would be equally important as if I don't have a desire for a product, no price would be right. It is a beautiful little trailer. Are you doing any RV shows? They can be expensive but you need a way to introduce your product. Although it isn't my business, I do wonder what kind of research you did prior to starting this business venture. I continue to wish you well and hope to see an update of how things are going with your business. Cathy
Hello Cathy-

We did build a prototype, and took it out camping. The reaction was astounding, making me very confident. Still, you are right when you say if we missed the mark, the money is not important. We will know the answer to that soon enough as well. Do not worry, we have had a lot of fun, and I would not change a thing.

Steve
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:46 PM   #22
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Trailer: 2007 17 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe
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Steve,

There are so many humans now wanting to travel, I bet you can sell your product. 'Build it and they will come'.
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:31 PM   #23
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Do you have any plans to add any additional bunks for those of us with children?

Melissa in Phoenix
saving my $'s for my first trailer
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:51 PM   #24
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Genesis
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Do you have any plans to add any additional bunks for those of us with children?

Melissa in Phoenix
saving my $'s for my first trailer
Yes we do, once we establish ourselves.

Thanks for asking.

Steve
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:21 PM   #25
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Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
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Steve, I think the comments about the construction of Scamps and Bigfoot (assume 2500 series) trailers are significant. The construction of the Genesis is much more like a Bigfoot - including wood structure for the fiberglass roof - than it is like a Scamp... even though both are upper and lower moulded fiberglass shells. The Bigfoot product is expensive and heavy, and that means too expensive and too heavy for me, but it is worth it for some. The comparison gets difficult because Bigfoot has essentially abandoned the small trailer market.

I also agree with the equipment verus pricing comment by Donna, although I think of it as trim levels of one model rather than Chev versus Cadillac. Just as cars come in base models and highly equipped variations which are often 50% (or more) more costly, to suit the desires of customers, there could be two option levels offered. That would both reduce the shock of the initial price, and show the value of the added equipment in the high-end unit.

In another forum I commented that for the weight and cost, I would want "more trailer". While I understand that the small interior is part of the outside-galley formula (and I think the proportions are fine for that type), there just isn't enough functionality there for me at the original price. The new price seems quite in line with the realistic competition, including well-equipped under-20-foot stick-builts which also have one bed, such as the R-Vision Trail Lite Bantam Flier (the model we seriously considered before buying an old Boler 17').
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:42 PM   #26
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Name: Reace
Trailer: Escape Manufacturer
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Hi Steve

I am assuming the price you have listed as an MSRP is the price from the dealer. Have you considered selling your product to the consumer direct from the factory? Molded fiberglass trailers are more costly to build as you well know and selling direct keeps the middle man (dealer) out of the consumer's pocket.

You are obviously building a high end product and nobody knows all the little perks about your trailer better than you. Showing your customer first hand how they are built and why they cost what they do goes a long way. My experience using dealers to market a product like this is they tend to lump it in with the rest of the stick and tin trailers and no matter how much you try to brain wash them that this is better....they don't get it.

Just my thoughts from one small manufacturer to another.

Best of luck

Reace
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Old 03-12-2007, 12:08 AM   #27
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Genesis
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Hi Steve

I am assuming the price you have listed as an MSRP is the price from the dealer. Have you considered selling your product to the consumer direct from the factory? Molded fiberglass trailers are more costly to build as you well know and selling direct keeps the middle man (dealer) out of the consumer's pocket.

You are obviously building a high end product and nobody knows all the little perks about your trailer better than you. Showing your customer first hand how they are built and why they cost what they do goes a long way. My experience using dealers to market a product like this is they tend to lump it in with the rest of the stick and tin trailers and no matter how much you try to brain wash them that this is better....they don't get it.

Just my thoughts from one small manufacturer to another.

Best of luck

Reace
Hello Reace, it is kind of you to write.

You know, Reace, I have a growing belief that you may well be correct.

When we fist were considering how to go to market, I had some misgivings about selling over dealers, not only because of the mark up, but also because of some less than stellar experiences with some dealers in my past. Nevertheless, we decided to go to market over dealers, not only to reach a larger audience, but more importantly, to be able to adequately service our customers. We targeted smaller dealers who we felt would give our product the attention we felt it deserved. Finally, we viewed our competition to be units such as the T@B, which are successfully sold over a dealer network.

Dealers are like people, in that there are good and bad. The dealers we have chosen to associate ourselves with are some of the best I have ever met; I believe they are good people.

However, you have a very valid point about the fiberglass market. If we were to build conventional walls as opposed to the glass we are using, we could reduce our BOM costs by about 30%, and eliminate some structure and weight. We were unwilling to do this however, mostly because one of the things that I really had trouble accepting in my former employment with conventional RV manufacturers was that the responsibility for the maintenance of the body and roof seals was placed on the customer. In the end, the RVs always leaked. This made for very unhappy customers, and dealers, and high warranty costs, and bad word of mouth. We resolved that this would never be the case with Genesis. Therefore, we elected to use a one-piece molded fiberglass top. My belief was that customers would perceive the value and be willing to pay for it.

That does not seem to be the case. Whether the Fiberglass folks are savvier, the market structure is different, or the stick customers cannot tell the difference and/or are unwilling to pay for it, in the end, the fiberglass units are expected to sell for about the same price as the stick units, which really affect how one can address the market. The other mistake that I think we made is that instead of listing the options and building value, we offered the “whole enchilada” which is shocking to some customers. Looking at some of the competition, we are actually less when the options are deducted. Perhaps we are including things that people do not want or are unwilling to pay for.

Reace, it is nice to hear from another manufacturer. We really believe in what we are building, but I am sure that you are correct, in that we will have to consider making some significant adjustments to how we go to market if we are to survive.

Thanks for writing, and take care.

Steve Wishek
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Old 03-12-2007, 09:14 AM   #28
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Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
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We had a discussion in this forum about dealer versus factory-direct distribution from the the customer's point of view when Reace first released the Escape 17. (Escape Trailer, Anybody Have One?) I think what Reace and Steve are saying here is consistent with the ideas which came out in that discussion.

I have two anecdotes which are relevant to this issue, both related to Escape:

I first saw the Escape 17 at Woody's RV in Edmonton, where the one sales rep who was identified as the Escape "specialist" was very enthusiastic about the product. He knew it well, stayed in touch with Reace, and found buyers.

The last time I saw an Escape was at a dealership in another city. There were buyers there, making the final arrangements to purchase the trailer. This sale was apparently made entirely on the obvious merits of the product, because the sales rep knew essentially nothing, and seemed only mildly interested. I can only assume that the two dealerships got their product from the same distributor, and had the same access to Reace and information about his product.

So the dealer performance certainly varies, and I can understand avoiding the use of dealers for the various reasons (cost and performance) which have been listed. On the other hand, I would not have seen an Escape at all without their presence in dealerships. Shows might be one method to display the product, but I assume one must be associated with a distributor to be in the big RV shows.

Another factor of special interest to those of us across an international border from a manufacturer of interest is how the dealerships relate to cross-border business. The two most common brands of trailer in this forum are Casita and Scamp, but there are very few units of these factory-direct brands in Canada. There are Bigfoots in the U.S., but they are sold by dealerships. When I looked at Casita, I was hesitant to make such a major purchase of a product with no representation in my country, especially since Casita said their shipping method was to take it to their side of the border and leave me on my own to import it; I wonder how many other potential buyers have the same concern?
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