Boondocking an Electric Heater

[John in Michigan]

what brand and model are your batteries? I have an Optima yellow top that has been reliable and it performed as predicted in my 5 day "realistic" test as I checked the fully charged, discharging, etc voltages, both immediate and after resting. Charging pulls the voltage above the resting voltage line for up to 24 hours, while discharging pulls the voltage below the resting voltage line for up to 24 hours.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Buggeee

If there's anything I've learned on these forums it's that people like pictures. You're a strange crew in this electric category, being readers and all. I'm attaching some pictures of the heater, inverter and some of the other components I'm getting together in my system here. You'll have to pardon the mess as this is in a mock-up stage right now. Once its all functioning I'll go back and mount things, tighten up some runs etc.

More power to you (pun intended)! But if it was me, I think I'd just pretend I was tent camping and put on long underwear and an extra pair of socks when the temperature dipped. There is no shame wearing ear muffs inside a camper. Besides, all those electronic gizmos are taking up valuable schnapps storage space. Please keep the pictures coming as you piece it all together and fire it up....

[Buggeee]

Uh oh when they said store the schnapps inside... I thought they ment the belly! This going to be a heck of an afternoon now.

John's question is a fair one. NPP branded. Picture attached.

Also, and I hesitated doing this, but what is this now? Our third date? Attached is a picture of the snake nest that is holding my three out of four batteries together right now. Be gentle now. I just grabbed some of my cables that I pulled out of the Long Long Trailer before it rolled away and threw them on here. I will build some proper short runs for this once I've got battery number four in place, everything's been run once in the yard here and I'm confirmed that everything is where it should be.

Also, so no one freaks out here, I will be building a box around these with a vent in the floor and another at the top of the box going out the side of the shell so that any inadvertent off-gassing has access to the outside no matter which direction that cares to flow. Additionally, I have a 12v propane gas and CO2 detector that will be mounted near this location. Although it's not built for it, these detectors will be triggered by the gas that comes out of batteries and sound an alarm.

[Buggeee]

You know, as I think about it, if I leave that snakes nest as it is - it would act as a radiant heater too! Lmao. Must be the schnapps setting in.

[k0wtz]

Originally Posted by Buggeee

Ok Peeps, by Boondocking I am meaning Dry Camping, by which I simply mean not plugging in to anything. I don't mean full timing, or any length of timing for that matter. Just not connecting for some period. I'm going to be using, gulp, an electric heater. I am expecting to exhaust my batteries by the end of the trip, and recharch them at home on the grid. I am not expecting to be self sufficient or successfully off grid for more that, let's say, 3 full days at a given time. Going mountain biking for the weekend, that sort of thing. Not expecting comfort, looking for enjoyable adventure. This egg is so small it reminds ds me if a tent so I think this is possible.

So you know, I am at risk of totally hijacking a pour soul's thread over at owner's helping owner's, where she was asking about heating while driving, which is a different issue than what I'm tangenting on. Here is a link to Nancy's thread on that issue in the event you want to talk about Nancy's question instead of the nonsense I'm going to get into in this one - http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ing-82227.html. Ok that was Nancy's question not mine. I'm not heating while driving. I'm just heating with electric off my batteries.

So as to not step on my fellow Egger's toes, and hoping I don't get banned for life by some unintended forum faux pas or another, I am going to copy my post over to here, by quoting it.

Then I'm going to copy over a very useful reply, by quoting that as well. Then I will expect you all to either laugh at me for dreaming of what is as silly as the ever elusive perpetual motion machine, or chime in with some thoughts about moving the pipe dream forward a bit.

So... Here goes...

the only way you could have el. heat is by using a generator not an economical way for heat. I use a cat heater using propane much cheaper and efficient. Before I get flamed yes vent your windows and on top a tad and expect a little condensation!

there is no free lunch!

bob

[Buggeee]

Hey there Bob, Fans, Patriots and Well-Wishers -

I have one of these shunt-using amp hour moniters on the way so it can help us watch this train wreck in slow motion once we reach the separation in the tracks around the bend... Here's the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-BMV-7.../dp/B00MJ9TAN8

Another egger did the leg work on that so I scampered upside and grabbed one too.

Remember Peeps, this is the dawn of the Golden Age. If we can get this stuff running on electrons, at all, we can make full use of the opportunities that arise as bigger and bigger capacities and smaller and smaller sizes and lighter and lighter weights come on line in the energy storage part of our world.

Converted electric VWs used to weigh a ton and a half and go 30 mph for only 20 miles or so. Now with lithium those bugs are terrorizing muscle cars and going very respectable distances too.

If I'm not found amongst the wreckage tell my kids I did it for them wouldja?

Too much fun.

[John in Michigan]

Didn't want to say this until you mentioned the kids: Pay up your life insurance AND do that testing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy back in the back yard away from the house, the wife, the kids, and DEFINITELY away from the egg!

[k0wtz]

I just have to reply to your post are you aware of all the el. cars coming out, el. buses, el trucks. Today we are setting on a glut of energy but who is going to rebuild all our el. lines and power generating and then we have to go back to the old way!

I guess at my age it doesn't matter does it?

[Buggeee]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

I just have to reply to your post are you aware of all the el. cars coming out, el. buses, el trucks. Today we are setting on a glut of energy but who is going to rebuild all our el. lines and power generating and then we have to go back to the old way!

I guess at my age it doesn't matter does it?

I drive one daily. Good points Bob. With all the solar and wind progressing the way it is, my guess is we will be generating more and more locally, or even at home, thereby easing our demands on the grid. Only time will tell. I hope to see as much of it as I can.

It's fun to think about the possibilities isn't it. When I was a kid I could not have imagined I'd be sitting on my couch in Ohio, chatting with Bob in Missouri, about how we have to come up with a way to power all the electric cars, on a wireless hand held computer that we affectionately call a "phone". I know what a phone is Bob, and this ain't it!!!

Do you know that this electric heater discussion has been looked at over a thousand times?! That means that hundreds of people, from all over the place, can contribute to one project, simply because that's what people like to do.

Amazing.

But not nearly as amazing as it will be when this heater runs! Thanks for the note.

[k0wtz]

buggee I own a 40f eagle bus 2 batteries that enough for starting and to run the lights you would no belive the novices that would get on boards thinking they could put in a bank of batteries and be able to run an a/c.


I came from a ham radio background believe me this is not feasible or possible maybe with a huge bank of capacitors to somehow store up electricity but is not possible. you can get yourself a giant jolt for about a second but start up is what is hard. I see the possibilities but I don't believe it yet! time will tell!


Starting motors is hard and hard on components if sufficient amperage is not available to do this before long no more motor. Maybe I don't dream gig enough!

[Mike Magee]

Go easy on the schnapps when camping, the alcohol actually causes your body to lose heat. You feel warmer but you're not, because the blood vessels near the skin open up and you feel the heat at skin level... as it's leaving your body.

For sleeping warmly, a heated mattress pad is more efficient than an electric blanket because the former is under you (and heat rises) whereas the latter is on top of you. The ElectroWarmth pads come in 120V or 12V, and in various sizes. Something like 2Ah average draw @ 12V during use. We had these on all the beds when I was a kid; they work. Heated Mattress Pads, Bunk and Table Warmer: ElectroWarmth

I managed to buy a new-old-stock Pelonis FlexiFurnace, one of the earliest models Pelonis offered. It idles down more than other Pelonis disc furnaces I've encountered, sipping power as it operates very quietly with super-low fan speed. It has a round body instead of a square one. They look like this: Pelonis Flexi Furnace Ceramic Disc Furnace PF-1212-K3 1500 Watts 5200 BTUs | eBay

Hmm, now to crack open the Rumple Minze before bed... see what you did? Power of suggestion!

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Buggeee

...

I have one of these shunt-using amp hour moniters on the way so it can help us watch this train wreck in slow motion once we reach the separation in the tracks around the bend... Here's the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-BMV-7.../dp/B00MJ9TAN8
...

Ouch! $162! For that kinda money (actually a tad less), I would go with the Trimetric (and in fact I did).

I don't know anything about your monitor but the Trimetirc does sound like it is just the type of device you would enjoy. You can spend many hours with it.

[Buggeee]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Ouch! $162! For that kinda money (actually a tad less), I would go with the Trimetric (and in fact I did).

I don't know anything about your monitor but the Trimetirc does sound like it is just the type of device you would enjoy. You can spend many hours with it.

Yes that Trimeric looks like it would be just as much fun or more. The descriptions of what they do are very similar. Measuring amp hours going out to loads, amp hours coming in from chargers, telling you how much net you be available to spend. The Trimeric says it communicates with a particular solar charge controller (mine is different) so that is cool. The one that's on its way can add a Bluetooth dongle so you can watch your batteries in your tablet or phone. I'll be cooking marshmallows so I didn't order the dongle... Yet! This stuff is preoccupying isn't it?

I've never had one of these tools before so I'm looking forward to using it in this build.

[John in Michigan]

The Trimetric would help tremendously with your 3 day test (make sure to do the test for 3 days, and turn the heater on and off at the time of day, frequency and duration similar to how you expect to do while camping). And prepare a detailed log of test measurements throughout the test. I logged each measurement and time/date logged on a spreadsheet.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by John in Michigan

The Trimetric would help tremendously with your 3 day test (make sure to do the test for 3 days, and turn the heater on and off at the time of day, frequency and duration similar to how you expect to do while camping). And prepare a detailed log of test measurements throughout the test. I logged each measurement and time/date logged on a spreadsheet.

Yes, you can interface to the Trimetic using serial communications protocol and dump the data for detailed analysis. Or you can go hiking or fishing.

BTW, I have the paired solar charger also. The combo work very well together.

[Buggeee]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Yes, you can interface to the Trimetic using serial communications protocol and dump the data for detailed analysis. Or you can go hiking or fishing.

BTW, I have the paired solar charger also. The combo work very well together.

Dudes you are drowning me here!!! Lol. Besides, the Victron is on its way already. Maybe the Bluetooth dongle with phone app is more my speed. I'll start saving for that so I can whip it out around the campfire and watch my neighbor's eyes imediately glass over. . I can see it now... "Um... That's cool I guess... Didn't you say there was some schnapps?"

[Wayne Collins]

Pretend you're an Eskimo, and dress warmly enough that you don't need a heater.

[Buggeee]

Originally Posted by Wayne Collins

Pretend you're an Eskimo, and dress warmly enough that you don't need a heater.

For sure! I'm going to be feeling like one with this set up.

[Buggeee]

Just a quick update for my eletron-leaning friends here in the egg house.

I've been doing some housekeeping in the battery bay and the results so far are attached in the picture. The bank is lashed together, with spacers between the cells, to help mitigate the stresses on the posts, which are now feeding through bus bars instead of snakes nests. (For reasons touched upon in my build thread the bank is subject to weight saving dissasembly depending on the tow vehicle).

The usage moniter has arrived - it's the round meter pictured in a ball on the batteries (waiting for it's proper mounting in the panel). And... I sprung for the bluetooth dongle, also balled in there (its the black wires and square box).

Which allows me to celebrate with an accurately measured battery coffee!

The brighter looking coffee picture shows the dashboard on my Android phone as the coffee is being brewed. The sixty something amps is what's being drawn as it brews. It's about half way done and about one amp hour has been used so far, as indicated on the App.

The darker picture is after the coffee is finished. A total of two amp hours has been used.

So... with a 400 amp hour battery that I'll limit to a 200 amp hour floor, equals One Hundred Kurig Brews!!! Stop by the site and I'll fix you a cup.

Now I've got to get the heater hooked back up and take some readings... Later Eggers!!!

[gordon2]

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars, and plans to have a ship that can take the first colonist there ready for testing in five years. Some people think he is certifiably insane. Others think he is a visionary of the type we rarely see. He recent successes tend to indicate he is the later. Whichever side of that fence you sit on, there is no doubt that he is pushing the envelope and that his work and vision will add greatly to man's exploration of the cosmos.

Pushing the envelope when it comes to using electric power in a boondocking camper is a endeavor with some corollary. Propane might be a better energy source at present, but some day solar and battery technology will likely led to the abandonment of pressured gas. Who will be the people who establish the baseline for the electric requirements to live totally electric, and have their morning coffee drip brewed? I'll tell you who they are... they are the people who tried it. Who decided to ignore the prevailing wisdom and advice and just give it a whirl. They are the people who just wanted to see for themselves what they could accomplish.