Boondocking an Electric Heater

[k corbin]

Thinking about the need for fresh air sparked my curiosity of how much is enough so I took a look at the instruction manual for the Camco Wave 3 heaters to see what they have to say about it. The total opening needed is not all that large, approx 4" by 6" for a total of 24" square inches. But they do say to divide the fresh air delivery into two openings, one low and one high. That makes sense as warm air rises so having a low opening and a high opening facilitates the movement of the air within the room and improves the speed at which fresh air replaces the exhaust air.
From the Camco Wave 3 manual:
Air Supply
This heater consumes air from the room in which it is
installed. To assure complete combustion, an adequate
fresh-air supply to the room is necessary.
practice to have at least two openings, one high and one
low. The room must have a total of at least 24 square inches
free-air opening (i.e. an opening of 4" x 6"=24 square inches).
Provide additional ventilation of at least 2 square inches for
every 1,000 BTUs per hour of input for any additional fuel
burning appliances used at the same time. If the room is
tightly sealed or insulated so that natural infiltration is low,
additional ventilation is required

I had been seriously thinking about adding a small fresh air intake port inside the cabinet where my stove is. In fact I have already purchased a couple of louvered hose vents with flange for this and as they are on the lower half slope they are self draining. I am installing another one of the same inside my portable toilet cabinet to help control odors in it. My cabinet doors have mesh panels rather than solid doors to facilitate air movement. Those would give me the low openings I need for safety. Also my back door window can slide open at the bottom which can provide an additional lower air intake. My stove/heater has a direct to the outside exhaust but it does not have a direct fresh air from outside intake. So my needs are a little different than the ones from the Wave 3 but it is good to plan to their specifications should I ever want to make a future change. I chose go to with the louvered hose vents as they have a standard plumbing size opening tube and that gives me off the shelf options for creating plug caps to insert into them if I don't want air coming in through them. Also if I want to I can create a mount for a 12v computer fan to either draw air in or exhaust it out. Adding these small fresh air vents is a fairly simple and not very expensive modification. Basically a hole saw job with some butyl tape and a few screws to secure them in place.

[David B.]

Originally Posted by EricAllyn

How much does running the propane stove for 10 min raise the temp feeling? would that be another way to boondock?

Yes you could, until the Carbon Monoxide killed you.
Dave & Paula

[k0wtz]

yep close your door tight no ventilation you will be dead. Manufactures sell thousands of these every year very few deaths. Ever manual says use ventilation!

I have had an unvented heater in my family room for 15 years aint dead yet!!

I see pictures of 500k rigs with those in them. Cat heaters are cheap to run and safe when used as instructed!

I have Stevie all set up for my Wave 3, I know to vent and I do have a alarm in her which I doubt will ever be needed!

bob

[EricAllyn]

My thought was -- when you get cold -- turn on a burner for a couple of min, warm things up a little, turn it off and go back to bed. Unless it is really cold outside, it will be enough for the night. A warm cup of coffee or tea in the morning will get you warmed up, and jacket will help. None of these will kill your battery. This would work for me, since I have to get up several times a night anyway.

[Buggeee]

I will now take a moment to thank Bob and friends for amply reviewing the thought processes that led me to the quest at hand.

My long long trailer, with it's acres of ancient jealousy windows and half a dozen roof vents, was so drafty I couldn't kill a canary in there if I tried. Fire up the gas furnace to 11, no thought about it.

This egg though, it's tight.

[k0wtz]

I guess I have to say it I am 75 do any of you remember setting in the kitchen your mom had all the gas burners going the oven on to heat the kitchen?

I sure do and I miss some of those days with mom doing the cooking and us watching her! All of us hungry those hot bisgists would pop up ham and eggs. I can still smell it!!

bob

[k0wtz]

As a test I have had the wave 3 on 8 hours door closed tight not even any venting I have 2 carbon monoxide meters in there I want to be sure not one has gone off yet. I have one that measures digital and it still says 0.


This in the 13f but 10f Scamper.


bob

[k corbin]

Once upon a time...long long ago, companies that made camp stoves used to sell some sheet metal heat distributors that you could set over the burner on a camp stove. Of course they quit doing such things due to liability risks. People burning themselves, fire, etc.

But the Chinese have not quit making and selling them on Ebay. Use at your own risk, just letting you know that such things did and still do exist. No comment on how well they work as I have never used one. You might check youtube for reviews from the preppers and ice shack fishermen.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/145-120mm-C...-/202082538265

[Artist Chic]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Go easy on the schnapps when camping, the alcohol actually causes your body to lose heat. You feel warmer but you're not, because the blood vessels near the skin open up and you feel the heat at skin level... as it's leaving your body.

For sleeping warmly, a heated mattress pad is more efficient than an electric blanket because the former is under you (and heat rises) whereas the latter is on top of you. The ElectroWarmth pads come in 120V or 12V, and in various sizes. Something like 2Ah average draw @ 12V during use. We had these on all the beds when I was a kid; they work. Heated Mattress Pads, Bunk and Table Warmer: ElectroWarmth

I managed to buy a new-old-stock Pelonis FlexiFurnace, one of the earliest models Pelonis offered. It idles down more than other Pelonis disc furnaces I've encountered, sipping power as it operates very quietly with super-low fan speed. It has a round body instead of a square one. They look like this: Pelonis Flexi Furnace Ceramic Disc Furnace PF-1212-K3 1500 Watts 5200 BTUs | eBay

Hmm, now to crack open the Rumple Minze before bed... see what you did? Power of suggestion!

What a great thread. I've learned so much from this. In need of replacing my golf cart battery pack, wanting to build a Tesla wall, having a need for power in my MacGregor sailboat and in camping, I'd toyed with building 1 device that could attend all needs. You all have explained this so well.

I now know I'll get my propane furnace overhauled!

And, I've not seen a 12 volt heated mattress pad. I think it's perfect.

Brilliant thread, Bugeee et al.

[Glenn Baglo]

You may be interested in this story:
Exclusive: Tesla's secret batteries aim to rework the math for electric cars and the grid


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN22Q1WC

[Artist Chic]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

You may be interested in this story:
Exclusive: Tesla's secret batteries aim to rework the math for electric cars and the grid


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN22Q1WC

I read the article, thank you for adding the very interesting update here. The world is making great strides to fossil-free living.
Thanks, Glenn!

[Natalie21]

In your opinion, gas heater or electric heater is better. I need some advice to can choose a good heater. What do you think? Thanks

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Natalie21

In your opinion, gas heater or electric heater is better. I need some advice to can choose a good heater. What do you think? Thanks

Natalie, your question does not have a simple answer. The thread title includes “boondocking.” If truly boondocking there is no choice between gas or electric unless you have a generator. You cannot run an electric heater off of a battery.

If you have hookups and want to run an electric heater (the small quartz heaters work well in smaller RVs) I suggest searching Amazon for “thermostatically controlled outlet.” The thermostats on small electric heaters are about as useful as screen doors on a submarine. Look at the thermostats made by Hyency and Nashone (like everything else, made in China). Plug the outlet into a live outlet and plug the heater into it. Turn the heater to its highest setting. Adjust the thermostat to the temperature you want and place it away from the heater itself. The remote control turns the outlet on or off as needed. The heater will cycle on and off and the temperature inside the RV will stay even. You can place the thermostat beside the bed so if you get cold or hot, you don’t have to get out of bed to adjust the desired temperature. And should you go for a quartz heater, try to find one that has dual wattage settings, like 900/1,500. Always run it on the lower setting with the built in thermostat set to max. Most circuits in RVs are 15 amp circuits and 1,500 watts is pushing capacity. It is not wise to utilize a 15 amp outlet at its stated capacity.

[steve dunham]

If I was going to go boon dock camping in the middle of winter I would not place my life in the hands of a RV furnace , unvented gas heater or electric heat dependent on a generator
I’ve winter camped at -20 deg F and we depended on a good ground pad , a good sleeping bag , a wool blanket , warm clothes & boots , and a collapsible wood stove to survive

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

If I was going to go boon dock camping in the middle of winter I would not place my life in the hands of a RV furnace , unvented gas heater or electric heat dependent on a generator
I’ve winter camped at -20 deg F and we depended on a good ground pad , a good sleeping bag , a wool blanket , warm clothes & boots , and a collapsible wood stove to survive

Steve, you make a valid point. But if you are running a generator for an electric heater, and have a furnace that is functional, and a reliable vehicle which will start and take you to a warm space, you have a primary heat source and backup for a backup. While I wouldn’t consider camping at those temperatures as being “fun,” (I do not hunt or ice fish) I don’t see the conditions you described as being much different than being in a northern home without a wood stove at -20°. Nor do I think many people here are as “cold courageous” as you are when it comes to camping. If power goes out, the house is likely to get cold. It happened to me when I lived in New Hampshire. By the next winter, I had a wood stove. But looking at Natalie’s demographics, she resides in Mexico and I seriously doubt that she is planning to camp anywhere in life threatening cold temperatures. In 5 years, I have run the furnace 3 times. Once all night boondocking in BC, Canada, and twice for 5 or 10 minutes to take the chill off. I obviously don’t know what Natalie’s plans are, but I rarely need heat when camping. I do very little camping in Flori-duh, and I go north to get away from its summer heat and humidity, usually at the beginning of June and return by early October. It’s rare if I encounter temps below the mid 30s F. But I can definitely understand your use/need for a collapsible wood stove.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by CPW

Steve, you make a valid point. But if you are running a generator for an electric heater, and have a furnace that is functional, and a reliable vehicle which will start and take you to a warm space, you have a primary heat source and backup for a backup. While I wouldn’t consider camping at those temperatures as being “fun,” (I do not hunt or ice fish) I don’t see the conditions you described as being much different than being in a northern home without a wood stove at -20°. Nor do I think many people here are as “cold courageous” as you are when it comes to camping. If power goes out, the house is likely to get cold. It happened to me when I lived in New Hampshire. By the next winter, I had a wood stove. But looking at Natalie’s demographics, she resides in Mexico and I seriously doubt that she is planning to camp anywhere in life threatening cold temperatures. In 5 years, I have run the furnace 3 times. Once all night boondocking in BC, Canada, and twice for 5 or 10 minutes to take the chill off. I obviously don’t know what Natalie’s plans are, but I rarely need heat when camping. I do very little camping in Flori-duh, and I go north to get away from its summer heat and humidity, usually at the beginning of June and return by early October. It’s rare if I encounter temps below the mid 30s F. But I can definitely understand your use/need for a collapsible wood stove.

I understand your point and it is well taken
We were coming back from a Fall rally when temps were in the 20 ‘s to 30’s
The furnace in our new Escape failed along with our EMS ( not allowing us to run our electric heater ). Trying to sleep in our truck was neither comfortable , warm or safe .
The furnace in our Escape has failed on 3 occasions

PS : Our home is heated with wood , WHY ? , because it works , it is not subject to utility failures , the cost of fuel is stable and a large pile of firewood has a reassuring quality !

[Raspy]

The upper and lower vents into a room that is supplying combustion air to a heater, are called Combustion and Ventilation vents. This is typical for homes, but is not needed to function with the typical forced air heaters we use in trailers, where the combustion air and exhaust are vented from, and to, the outside. The warm air we feel from the vent, is heated air that is not associated with combustion.

One suggestion I used to hear a lot around boats, was to put a flower pot upside down over the stove burner to heat the cabin. Never felt compelled to try it.

It seems wasteful to have some ventilation in a room being heated, but it makes the environment much nicer. It adds a fresh air and it vents humid air.