Do I need a battery box?

[J Ron]

Double security, AGM battery in a vented box.

[Casita Greg]

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on an AGM battery for a travel trailer. You can buy three or four regular lead-acid batteries for the price of one, and they don't last any longer or perform any better. In fact, they are much more fickle than regular batteries, and if you don't charge them properly, (which you basically can't do with a 3-stage "dumb charger,") you'll ruin it in short order. Just my two cents.

[offroad]

Originally Posted by Casita Greg

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on an AGM battery for a travel trailer. You can buy three or four regular lead-acid batteries for the price of one, and they don't last any longer or perform any better. In fact, they are much more fickle than regular batteries, and if you don't charge them properly, (which you basically can't do with a 3-stage "dumb charger,") you'll ruin it in short order. Just my two cents.

Agm type 31 100ah at sams club $167. Lead acid wet battery at Walmart half that cost.

Can you link the instruction comparing charge cycle of AGM versus WET battery?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by offroad

Weird synchronicity seeing this discussion. Just installed a new house battery in my RV trailer. Put it in backward. Positive to negative. Am feeling extra stupid because of electrical engineering degree.

Blew out four fuses. Lucky the factory design of my RV trailer includes includes fuses for just this stupidity.

Talked with someone who remembers that DC voltage wires are color coded positive-Black, and negative-White , which is the opposite of automobile color code. Was thinking red-positive.

Now put some electrical tape around the wires that is red and black to get my attention three years from now.

Point is scared myself a lot because I could have been the Hindenburg battery explosion right next to my propane tanks.

Don't feel too bad... I have corrected that same mistake for other owners many times.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by offroad

...
Now put some electrical tape around the wires that is red and black to get my attention three years from now.

So everywhere in your camper, white wires are negative and black wires are positive, yet you want to make a white wire black, which is the reverse polarity?

But to be honest, I cannot claim to be a purist myself. For example, on my rig the propane alarm has red and black pigtails, so the red goes to black and black goes to white.. but that is only about 9 inches from the alarm. The rest of the camper is white for ground and black for positive (with one other exception).

I see great merit in being as consistent as possible. Perhaps a warning label like the one that Scamp puts on the front of the camper would be a good idea. I have spent a little extra money to use consistent wire color as much as reasonable - marine quality wire is not so cheap but I have bought some to try and be consistent.

Originally Posted by offroad

...
Point is scared myself a lot because I could have been the Hindenburg battery explosion right next to my propane tanks.

The danger is real but the risk is likely much less than you might think. It is very unlikely there was enough hydrogen gas accumulation to be ignited (especially with the battery outside with a box that is properly ventilated), and the spark from a reverse polarity connection should not be very much (due to the fuses blowing) - at least not compared to a dead short across the battery terminals with a wrench. And I assume your propane tank or regulator were not leaking and ideally you had the tank off anyway, especially while working on the electrical system.

Its a common error but thanks to the protection built in to the wiring and converter in most rigs, not usually a major one.

[Jim Bennett]

White is negative and black is positive? I would have thought that would not be legal. Is this just Scamp, or do other trailers do this? I have seen nothing but red for positive and black for negative. Actually that is a lie, as when I worked in the power industry we only use numbered wires in cable, and 1 was positive and 2 was negative.

[Mike Magee]

Just ask any wire, "Are you positive?" If it says "no," it is negative.

Oh, Floyd, be careful with that bottle of dihydrogen monoxide. Dangerous stuff; if you get much of it in your lungs it can kill you.

[Daniel A.]

[QUOTE=gordon2;711687]


(The danger is real but the risk is likely much less than you might think. It is very unlikely there was enough hydrogen gas accumulation to be ignited (especially with the battery outside with a box that is properly ventilated), and the spark from a reverse polarity connection should not be very much (due to the fuses blowing) - at least not compared to a dead short across the battery terminals with a wrench. And I assume your propane tank or regulator were not leaking and ideally you had the tank off anyway, especially while working on the electrical system. )

H2 gas will not accumulate no matter where you put the battery just imagine the battery under your car hood with all that electrical stuff in close proximity.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Casita Greg

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on an AGM battery for a travel trailer.

Yep, no doubt about that, your money certainly wouldn't be wasted. This is why after many, many hours of researching I bought one for my trolling motor and two for my trailer.

For well less than twice the price for the same size of battery you get near twice the life, way faster charging which is great with solar (probably my favourite feature), less discharge at rest, handle extreme cold better, safer when handling and should you be in an accident, is lighter for the same amp hour rating, and no need to vent (though mine are). Heck, I could mount them in any orientation I wanted.

The local solar shop I deal with, who have been great with help and advice, pretty much only carry and promote AGM for effectiveness with their systems. I trust them a lot, a couple of them really are solar gurus.

[Glenn Baglo]

I'm not looking for a battery that handles extreme cold. Not at all.

[wilyoung]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

White is negative and black is positive? I would have thought that would not be legal. Is this just Scamp, or do other trailers do this? I have seen nothing but red for positive and black for negative. Actually that is a lie, as when I worked in the power industry we only use numbered wires in cable, and 1 was positive and 2 was negative.

Unfortunately different applications have different standard color codes. Electronics (radio, tv, instruments), in general, uses red for high voltage (positive) and black for negative.


Construction (buildings) uses black for hot and white for neutral.


Both use green for earth (chassis) ground.


And, of course, other colors are used for other things like multi-phase wiring, other than standard voltages, and stop lights, running lights, brakes, etc. in your trailer connector.



Automobiles are generally wired to electronic color codes.



RVs, generally, are wired to home (construction) color codes.


Instruments (smoke detectors, lp detectors, etc.) are generally wired to electronic color codes.


I say generally because sometimes not. Confusing? You bet.



If in doubt check things out with a volt meter before hooking up new wires.

[offroad]

Originally Posted by gordon2

So everywhere in your camper, white wires are negative and black wires are positive, yet you want to make a white wire black, which is the reverse polarity?

But to be honest, I cannot claim to be a purist myself. For example, on my rig the propane alarm has red and black pigtails, so the red goes to black and black goes to white.. but that is only about 9 inches from the alarm. The rest of the camper is white for ground and black for positive (with one other exception).

I see great merit in being as consistent as possible. Perhaps a warning label like the one that Scamp puts on the front of the camper would be a good idea. I have spent a little extra money to use consistent wire color as much as reasonable - marine quality wire is not so cheap but I have bought some to try and be consistent.





The danger is real but the risk is likely much less than you might think. It is very unlikely there was enough hydrogen gas accumulation to be ignited (especially with the battery outside with a box that is properly ventilated), and the spark from a reverse polarity connection should not be very much (due to the fuses blowing) - at least not compared to a dead short across the battery terminals with a wrench. And I assume your propane tank or regulator were not leaking and ideally you had the tank off anyway, especially while working on the electrical system.

Its a common error but thanks to the protection built in to the wiring and converter in most rigs, not usually a major one.

Was going to order some $1 stickers until I found that shipping is $18. Will pass. But looking for stickers from another source.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by wilyoung

RVs, generally, are wired to home (construction) color codes.

Home construction, at least here, sees red and black used for DC wiring, and of course black and white for AC. This is what my Escape and other past trailers have been wired with.

Just thinking, my trailers, even the past stick built, have all been Canadian built. I would if this is a code just here. The black and white for DC would certainly be confusing.

[thimith]

Thank you all for your answers! I decided to put it outside the trailer eventually...

After shopping around for batteries and seeing that the AGMs were around $300 vs $160 for a Lead-Acid, I decided to poke a hole in the floor and run a line to the hitch and leave the battery outside.

Pro:
- More storage space inside
- peace of mind about any potential hazard
- cheaper than AGM.

Con:
- I have one more hole in the fiberglass
- the battery isn't very hard to steal
- installing the battery on the frame doesn't look too sexy

[k corbin]

Originally Posted by offroad

Was going to order some $1 stickers until I found that shipping is $18. Will pass. But looking for stickers from another source.

Invest in a label maker. They are handy to have at home and at work. That is what I use to label my wires and lots of other stuff.

[wilyoung]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Home construction, at least here, sees red and black used for DC wiring, and of course black and white for AC. This is what my Escape and other past trailers have been wired with.

Just thinking, my trailers, even the past stick built, have all been Canadian built. I would if this is a code just here. The black and white for DC would certainly be confusing.

Well, I said "generally". That applies to the US. And terminology gets mixed up between AC and DC, also. Canadian standards may be different than US. Etc. It can get confusing.


As for terminology, for instance; DC is positive and negative, AC is hot and neutral. With DC sometimes positive is ground, sometimes negative is ground. With AC neutral is always the "low" side and may or may not be grounded. In AC the hot side voltage is (usually) a sine wave that swings both positive and negative with respect to neutral, hence "alternating." With either, "ground" can be chassis ground or "good earth" ground. Chassis ground may be either "floating" (not be connected to earth ground) or connected to earth ground. Want any more confusion?

In my Casita battery compartment there are only three wires, black, white, and green. My battery is DC. There is no AC in there.

I have background as both an electronics tech (Navy, consumer, instruments, and computer hardware) and construction wiring (home refurbishing). If it can be confusing to someone with my background, and sometimes it is, I can understand why it is confusing to non-electrical background type people.

My recommendation is almost always check whatever you are connecting to with a volt meter to determine how it is wired. I usually do. It may be wired to a different code. Then again, maybe someone else screwed it up.

[Mike Magee]

Q: What did the red wire say to the black wire?


A: "Why do you always have to be so negative?"

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Q: What did the red wire say to the black wire?


A: "Why do you always have to be so negative?"

And the reply from the one on my Scamp of course was:

"I'm not.. in fact sometimes I am very positive"

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Q: What did the red wire say to the black wire?


A: "Why do you always have to be so negative?"

That's it, you're banned! [emoji849][emoji16]

Okay, I might smile a bit as I groaned.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

White is negative and black is positive? I would have thought that would not be legal. Is this just Scamp, or do other trailers do this? ...

thats based on household AC wiring, where white is neutral and black is live.