Frame Ground/Chassis Wire - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-13-2013, 12:25 PM   #15
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Two non-querulous quibbles. 1) Wouldn't spot priming or any common grease retard oxidation around a simple ground strap? 2) Why is paint removal for lug to frame contact necessary given the current path provided by the large area of contact between bolt head and lug and between bolt threads and bare steel of tapped threads in the frame?

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Old 03-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #16
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I would hate to have a 120 volt live frame and you be the ground when hooking up your trailer hitch. A bonded frame tripping the breaker would be good.
But then you guarantee the frame could be energized by connecting the converter to it. In my camper the only thing grounded to the frame are the tail lights.
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:06 PM   #17
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Hi Steve Dunham, I was hoping you would show up. While I know the theory, you know the practice as well. Thanks, Raz
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:02 PM   #18
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Two non-querulous quibbles. 1) Wouldn't spot priming or any common grease retard oxidation around a simple ground strap? 2) Why is paint removal for lug to frame contact necessary given the current path provided by the large area of contact between bolt head and lug and between bolt threads and bare steel of tapped threads in the frame?

jack
I agree about the primer but paint is not UL listed for use on electrical connections and Pentox has conductive grit in the compound and is not injurious to insulation Paint fills the lug and lug threads making it difficult when the paint dries to retougue the lug and insure the connection is tight ,the pentrox does not harden . The flat surface area of the lug is designed to carry a calculated amount of current , if you do not remove the paint you are limiting the conductive area to the area of the screw threads . I always scrape the paint , drill ,tap , put Pentrox on the lug ,wire, bolt , bare frame area plus use a lock washer . If you can find a copy of The NFPA Electrical Handbook it will explain why specific code requirements were enacted
The code is highly influenced by insurance companies who do NOT like paying out for fires ,death and personal injury IE arc fault ,GfCI, and Grounding requirements
"PLUS HI RAZ"
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:20 PM   #19
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Grounding

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But then you guarantee the frame could be energized by connecting the converter to it. In my camper the only thing grounded to the frame are the tail lights.
Why then are the frames of Manufactured Homes ( Mobil Homes ) required to be "Grounded" I have repaired several Mobil homes where the wiring passing thru the metal studs or touching the frame of the home has energized the trailer (No equipment ground to frame) . When stepping up on the metal steps of the trailer (One foot on the ground , one on the metal steps ) YOU conduct 120 VAC to ground . When you properly ground the frame of the trailer the shock hazard is eliminated , breakers start tripping and you can now trace the ground fault *Plus Ground Fault Circuit Breakers do not replace or eliminate the code requirements for proper grounding*
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Why then are the frames of Manufactured Homes ( Mobil Homes ) required to be "Grounded" I have repaired several Mobil homes where the wiring passing thru the metal studs or touching the frame of the home has energized the trailer (No equipment ground to frame) . When stepping up on the metal steps of the trailer (One foot on the ground , one on the metal steps ) YOU conduct 120 VAC to ground . When you properly ground the frame of the trailer the shock hazard is eliminated , breakers start tripping and you can now trace the ground fault *Plus Ground Fault Circuit Breakers do not replace or eliminate the code requirements for proper grounding*
I completely agree. The reason a "hot" chassis is a problem is because the utilities have already established an earth ground. Any leakage to the chassis will be "hot" to the earth. That leakage can come from faults in any AC powered equipment, even plastic water lines (tap water is a conductor).

If your trailer was a completely independent system with no earth ground, you might be able to float the chassis without a shock hazard to the earth, but once you are connected to utility supplied power the bonding & carrying of the ground through to the service pedestal is necessary.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:49 PM   #21
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Thanks everyone, all of your replies have helped with what I needed...and given me more to think about
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:05 AM   #22
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If it says to do it, I would do it, but I don't get the reasoning given here.

Obviously, this only applies to my camper...I know nothing about his. The wire passes through a connector in the fiberglass of the camper, and to the converter that is mounted to wood.

All 12v items are wired to ground by wires, nothing attaches to the frame at all. It's physically impossible for 120v to get to the frame, and there is only 3' of frame that the dc could get to, after it went through the wire insulation, and wire loom.

It's also almost physically impossible to be getting a hot from the service cord, etc., and touch the frame at the same time, so again...not seeing where it would help.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:14 AM   #23
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My scamp did not come with a converter just 120 volt Ac with one breaker. the 12 volt system was seperate. The ground from the cord to the breaker box was also bonded to the frame. The 12 volt battery was grounded to the frame. the electric brakes and breakaway switch are grounded to the frame. The tow and its battery are grounded to the frame when hooked up. When I rewired and put in a converter I bonded to the frame. Better safe than sorry. In a perfect world no one gets hurt and stupid things dont happed but it only takes one guy to put a screw in the wrong place to screw everything up.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #24
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Here is a link to the converter manual:

http://www.bestconverter.com/assets/...B%20Manual.pdf

Near the top of page two, under "120 VAC Connection", it states:

"Using an 8 AWG minimum size copper wire, attach from the vehicle/device chassis to the Converter/Charger Bonding Lug."

That's really the only reason why I considered connecting it, so I figured if I was going to do it I'd also make sure the wiring was weather protected.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:25 PM   #25
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steve dunham hit the nail on the head. Do what he said and you r golden.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:54 PM   #26
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Hi All,


Since you are all talking about grounds. I have a question about grounding the electrical outlet box for the shore power. I have little expertise around this stuff but I managed to rewire our 1972 Boler interior and exterior lighting as well as the PD converter without any issues. I had not dealt with the 110 side of things as we just finished the restoration last year and we were not going to private campgrounds that season.

This year I would like to finish everything so I obviously need to ground the outlet box but can I ground to the same spot as the converter on the frame? This spot is the only ground I have and we don't have any luxurious electric items in our egg.

Thanks,

Matt
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:18 PM   #27
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TTT


Any Boler owners out there to help?
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:27 PM   #28
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Keep in mind that with 120V, there is a difference between a grounded neutral, and an equipment grounding conductor (EGC). A neutral is the return path of the electrical circuit, which is earthed at the neutral bus (which also carries the circuit ground conductor); the purpose of an EGC is to ground the equipment/housing/junction box. You would not mix the neutral and EGC. The EGC merely provides an earthing means for the device's housing, in case it should somehow become energized.

Isn't electrical fun?
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