Fuse bank melted - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-31-2013, 10:21 AM   #15
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Scamp 13
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In looking at your pictures your heavy yellow wire is hooked to the hot side of your fuze. in my view this is the hot line from your converter. But in your first picture if this is the same yellow wire then why would it be hooked up to the white wire on the board below. this looks to me to be a short from the converter ground to the battery hot through the fuze pannel. I dont get the full shot of how its wired but it looks wrong to me.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:23 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by glennco View Post
Question on troubleshooting the wiring. Do these campers ground to the frame at all, or does everything just go back to the battery?

Thanks again for all the help!

Paul
Paul for what it worth I am not an electrician nor do I play one on TV but I do know that on my Scamp the converter is grounded to the frame as is the 120 breaker box, as well as the brakes. There may be other grounds. The trailer is as wired from the factory as no handy man specials have taken place on the trailers wiring, thankfully.

I also know I had a hard time finding the inline fuse from the battery at the point it entered the house. A lot of connections in that area with lots of tape... had to run my fingers down the wire until I felt the small bump of the fuse.

There is a Scamp wiring diagram in the Documents center here if you havent seen in it which may or may not help you.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:45 AM   #17
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Yes, mine is grounded to the frame on the 120v side. I honestly don't think the 12v is, I'll have to ring it out and check. I know I didn't wire my brakes to the frame at all. The tv ground and trailer battery ground are hooked together, and the brakes are wired to them.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:58 PM   #18
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Trailer: '07 Scamp 16' SD
Wisconsin
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Well, I spent a fair amount of time troubleshooting my issue this evening and here's what I've found

1: No circuit in the camper shorts to ground
2: I've tested the main circuits and they are all in good shape
3: the power connection to the vehicle is in rough shape, I'll attach a picture below.
4: TV power enters the camper through circuit 2 in the fuse panel, then put to the battery through the battery fuse.
5: I was unable to find an in-line fuse for the battery, I currently believe one does not exist.
6: the PD 4000 series is too large to fit in the existing opening, so I don't believe I'll be able to use a combined unit. I'll likely need to continue to utilize a separate converter and panel, the converter is currently a PD 9000 series
7: main power from the battery comes into the panel and gets distributed out to the the rest of the circuits. Power from the converter does the same

It seems likely that I'll be unable to test individual components until I reconnect power to the system.

My next step is likely to order a new panel so I can begin testing

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
Paul
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:31 PM   #19
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Yes, mine is grounded to the frame on the 120v side. I honestly don't think the 12v is, I'll have to ring it out and check. I know I didn't wire my brakes to the frame at all. The tv ground and trailer battery ground are hooked together, and the brakes are wired to them.
Somewhere near where the 120 cord comes into the trailer the "Green" wire form the 120 is attached to the frame and ground (round hole) on all 120 outlets. The converter may or may not have 120 outlet it's plugged into, it could be hard wired. If it hard wired there's a green wire on it that connected to the same green wire on 120 volt cord. The green wire on the converter is connected to all exposed metal, (required by law). The negative 12 volt at the converter is also connected to the exposed metal.

If you check with an ohm meter you'll find the 12 negative connected to the frame. Because the frame is exposed metal it's required that the frame is connected to the 120 Volt ground when plugged in. For clarification this ground is often called "safety ground". In the case of our trailers there is no other "ground". There's +12 or positive 12 Volts and - 12 or negative 12 Volts. There hot and neutral for 120 volt.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:59 PM   #20
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It looks like you've done a good job checking it out. The only other hint I could give would be to shake the wiring going into the trailer, in case it's intermittent.

When you do start hooking it all up, put a very small amperage fuse in first, with the circuit off. If it fries the fuse, you know you have a problem. I would rather blow a 1-2 amp fuse with a short, than a 10-20 amp one.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post

Somewhere near where the 120 cord comes into the trailer the "Green" wire form the 120 is attached to the frame and ground (round hole) on all 120 outlets. The converter may or may not have 120 outlet it's plugged into, it could be hard wired. If it hard wired there's a green wire on it that connected to the same green wire on 120 volt cord. The green wire on the converter is connected to all exposed metal, (required by law). The negative 12 volt at the converter is also connected to the exposed metal.

If you check with an ohm meter you'll find the 12 negative connected to the frame. Because the frame is exposed metal it's required that the frame is connected to the 120 Volt ground when plugged in. For clarification this ground is often called "safety ground". In the case of our trailers there is no other "ground". There's +12 or positive 12 Volts and - 12 or negative 12 Volts. There hot and neutral for 120 volt.
I checked my trailer, I have no 12v ground to my frame. I hooked the original 120v frame ground back up when I put the new converter in, so I know thats there.
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:02 AM   #22
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Evening all,


Well the last couple times we used our scamp I found that the fuse to the battery in the fuse panel had blown. After it was blown none of my 12v lights or appliances would function. I finally had a chance to start investigating and found a melted fuse panel

Here's what I know so far:

1: the PO replaced the 'American' converter with a PD not purchased from scamp last year.

2: Last time I changed that 20amp fuse, I noticed the fuse block was moving a tiny amount on the board.

Questions:
The schematic shows an inline fuse off of the battery but so far I haven't found one. Can someone tell me where this inline fuse is on the scamp SD models?

The schematic appears to show that the 12v lights should function even if there are issues with the fuse panel, but with that 20v fuse on the panel blown, the 12 v lights don't function. Is that typical, or did someone mess with the wiring somewhere along the way?

Based on the fuse block failure, I'm believing I was an issue with the block itself. Anyone have other things I should check?

Please enjoy the photo I snapped of my melted fuse panel, and thanks so much for the help as always,

Paul
Here is my perception thru. your photo: There is servere short cct and the melting terminals suggest a possiible WRONG FUSE RATING in the supply's circuitry. If the colour code is applied correctly, the white wire is SO CLOSED to the black and if vibration is put into account, your panel housing looseness could possibly cause hazard. The paper of your fuse ratings seem to be printed out from a home computer-indicates a DIY project--->VERIFY FUSES' RATINGS for proper protection of circuitry. My last thought is...PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK YOUR SUPPLIES' WIRINGS AND THEIR'S FUSES' RATINGS( Battery, Converter, 110VAC)...
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:22 AM   #23
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Great thoughts everyone thanks,


I've been thinking about this and there are a couple changes I'll likely make:

1: Add an in-line fuse to ensure we can't get back to the battery in the case of a short.
2: right now the power from the TV currently goes through the fuse panel as well. This seems overly complex to me, as we could easily have issues that the fuse panel would need to be in the middle of. I think I may move the power cable from the vehicle back to the factory position of being hooked to the battery + with a fuse.
3: It is a very interesting point raised above regarding fuse ratings for the board. That could definitely have been part of the issue.

I forgot to attach this pic last night, but in it you can see the state of the vehicle power connection to the trailer.

Thanks again, please continue with any thoughts you may have.

Paul
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:30 AM   #24
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One more question,

Is it typical to run household solid core wire between between the converter and distribution panel on the DC side, or is this something a previous tech did when replacing the converter?

Thanks,
Paul
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #25
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I would use stranded, although insipid would work. One other thing I thought of, was to be sure you have quality fuses like littel/atc/etc. I usually grab a handful of fuses when I'm in a junkyard. Do not use harbor freight/etc. fuses. They have been proven to go way over their rating.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by stevebaz View Post
If you have trailer brakes and a breakaway switch you need a ground from the battery to the frame. Scamp ties the brake ground to the frame when hooked up to tow...
Without trailer brakes and a breakaway switch there would be no need to ground the battery to the frame if you ran a ground wire to each of your circuts.
Yes, and even with trailer brakes there would be no need to ground the battery to the frame if you ran a ground wire to the brakes. Scamp may not have done it, but you can.

You can still tie the battery negative to the frame, but there's no need to make that part of any circuit.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by glennco View Post
Is it typical to run household solid core wire between between the converter and distribution panel on the DC side, or is this something a previous tech did when replacing the converter?
No, it is not typical to run non-stranded wire, such as the cable built into houses for 120V AC service, for any low-voltage DC purpose.

<insert major debate about stranded wire here >
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:16 PM   #28
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Trailer: '07 Scamp 16' SD
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Yeah, solid vs stranded wire debate.


1 additional vote for stranded.

An additional question. Does scamp typically use 12awg wire for a power feed? Even fused at 20 amps, 10awg seems like it would be safer, or is that just overkill?
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