Fuse bank melted - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 08-01-2013, 04:36 PM   #29
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Resetting Breakers

[QUOTE=lamimartin;406836]Hi Paul,
As you suspected, some bad contact or corrosion appear to have created conditions for a resistance that went hot or sparked and burned the fuse panel. Note that battery Inline fuse are often replaced by a auto reset breaker such as this one: so sparks on connecting the battery or very short power surge will not cut the main power.

I for one am not partial to resetting breakers for circuit overcurrent protection .I would install an inline fuse in the incoming DC line at the battery and at the converter . Fuses offer positive, dependable and consistent overcurrent protection ,breakers do not. Breakers are electrical mechanical devices that are affected by age ,corrosion and temperature and have inconsistent trip points. Overcurrent devices protect the equipment as well as the trailer wiring and breakers often allow too much pass thru current to protect equipment . Look at a car radio or a microwave or a TV and they have fuses for overcurrent protection . The advantages of a circuit breaker are the ability to be turned on and off and they are convenient to reset but offer far less protection than a fuse
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Old 08-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by glennco View Post
Yeah, solid vs stranded wire debate.


1 additional vote for stranded.

An additional question. Does scamp typically use 12awg wire for a power feed? Even fused at 20 amps, 10awg seems like it would be safer, or is that just overkill?
12awg wire is OK for the 20 amps that Scamp origonally installed but that was with limited power useage. By someone changing to a power distribution pannel you are changing the design peramaters. so the incomming line must be upgraded to the power capabilities of the pannel. I doubt that #12 @ 20 amps is up to snuff. Your figures will vary but for example about 5 amps for the fridge, 5 amps for the fan, 5 amps for the water pump. Examples but not limited to 5 amps for each lighting circut and 15 amps for each lighter style socket all this power can be concivably turned on at the same time even if its intermitant it all counts, that 20 amp fuse is gonna blow. It is far safer to upgrade the incoming wire to pannel rating including run wire length. Then fuze limit the incomming line to a load your comfortable with. Go to Walmart in the sterio section or any sterio supplier they have some nice large blade fuze holders with covers if you want to upsize your incomming power line.
My old Scamp had very limited power supplied by Scamp but when I wanted to add more convience items an upgrade had to be done. Right now your system is very suspect and should be wrought out and please follow the proper color codes and wire markings so anyone trouble shooting knows what was actually done.
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennco View Post
Yeah, solid vs stranded wire debate.

1 additional vote for stranded.

An additional question. Does scamp typically use 12awg wire for a power feed? Even fused at 20 amps, 10awg seems like it would be safer, or is that just overkill?
When I pulled my old converter out of the scamp, it was 12 gauge…with. 30 amp bullet fuse!!! The converter was rated for 15! That made me curious, so I hooked it back up and put a 15 amp in it. Smoked it. 20 amp…smoked it, 25 amp…smoked it after a minute or two. With the 30, I could barely touch the wire!!

I have no idea why it was that way, if scamp did that, or the p.o. did. That thing was a hair away from bursting into flames. I was ripping out the wiring anyway, so I quit investigating at that point.

I have 4 gauge on a 50 amp marine breaker now.

The other issue I have is with them branching circuits off of circuits. Well, if both require a 10 amp fuse, now you need a 20 amp. What if one of those is off, and the other starts pulling 18 amps?

Originally, all 12v was one circuit. Now it's:

fridge
furnace
water pump
lights
12v power receptacles

The 120v had the ac on one circuit, and the water heater and everything else on the other.

Now it's
Outside/couch/bunk outlets
Rh kitchen outlets/electric fireplace
Fridge/fluorescent light/Lh kitchen outlets
Ac
12v dc converter
Water heater

I prefer to keep everything separate with the lowest fuse/breaker rating needed. Otherwise, you might need one of these:

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #32
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I'll have to order some of those 530433's. Where did you source it?
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:18 PM   #33
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I wish I knew. You'll have to break into the garage of somebody with a british car. Lucas the inventor of the intermittent wipers…and headlights…and gauges…
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #34
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Sae j1292

This is a great discussion and very helpful in understanding concerns with trailer wiring in general.

You might be interested in the national standard that covers this type of wiring. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) J1292

SAE J1292: Automobile, Truck, Truck-Tractor, Trailer, and Motor Coach Wiring

Nothing in it will surprise any of us, but it's nice to see there are standards.

Dave in Baltimore
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:19 PM   #35
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...This is my thought thru: experiences... The over-kill wire(bigger size) will not hurt your electrical circuitry but it will add more weights and costs. THE OVER-KILLED FUSE RATINGS WILL COST YOU A WHOLE TRAILER ELECTRICAL CIRCUITRY. Pls do not forget that. That's why hydro suppliers use high voltage; 6000VAC, 230KVAV to deliver hydro to your home for long distance. They want to save cost with smaller size of their wires....Hopefully it helps...
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD1994 View Post
You might be interested in the national standard that covers this type of wiring. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) J1292

SAE J1292: Automobile, Truck, Truck-Tractor, Trailer, and Motor Coach Wiring

Nothing in it will surprise any of us, but it's nice to see there are standards.
I agree, it is good to have standards.

I note, though, that the common 7-pin flat-blade "RV" style electrical connection typically does not follow J1292 colour coding. Common 4-pin flat and 7-pin round-pin commercial truck trailer connectors (which are unsuited to electric brake and battery charging functions and rarely used on RVs) do follow this standard.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:23 PM   #37
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I figured I'd give everyone a status. I ordered a PD5000 panel and a charge wizard to attach to my PD9130.

Tomorrow I took the day off to work on the install this setup. The design of this PD panel is by far a better designed unit the. The 'American' unit that was in the scamp.

I intend to run new power and ground wires in a larger gauge as well. The previous setup had the power from the tug intersect with the battery + all the way back at the fuse panel. That is a poor design, and I will be moving it back up to the front as the camper would have been when it came from the factory. It will be isolated between two in-line fuses in the same style as per the factory. This effectively isolates the camper from the tug in case of any surges from the tug.

After it's all together, start testing individual devices to see if I can find something drawing too much current.


Any other things anyone can think of?
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:48 PM   #38
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Wanted to give folks an update here. I tried to run some 8awg wire wire but was unable to fish the wire around the front bath. So, I added the proper fuses separating the battery and camper from the power coming in from the tug. If anyone has ever tried to run new power wire in a scamp with a front bath, I'd be interested in knowing how it was done.

After adding the fuses I found that I blew the fuse between the battery and the tug power on our last trip. This made me start looking more deeply to an issue with the wiring in the tug. I found it, the power wire had gotten too close to the muffler and melted. It as creating an intermittent short to ground when driving. My relay protected the power system of the tug, but the poor wiring from the PO caused the failure of the fuse panel.

Hopefully I won't have another failure on the tug, but am reassured that I've added the necessary segregation to the power system in the scamp to prevent another catastrophic failure if a similar situation arises again

I'd very much appreciate any thoughts folks would have on running new power wire in the scamp. The current 12awg wire scamp runs seems like a weak point in the system d like to eliminate.

Thanks,

Paul
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:58 PM   #39
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I ran 4 gauge, but I went under the trailer with it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:20 PM   #40
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I did consider running the wire under the camper, but I go concerned about punching new holes through the floor
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:51 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by glennco View Post
I did consider running the wire under the camper, but I go concerned about punching new holes through the floor
As I've posted before, when I put a hole in the floor I drill an oversized hole, tape the bottom, fill with FG resin, then drill a centered, smaller hole once the resin has cured. That way the hole is completely sealed to water. I use butyl caulk on the bottom around the wire to finish it off.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:32 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Thomas G. View Post
As I've posted before, when I put a hole in the floor I drill an oversized hole, tape the bottom, fill with FG resin, then drill a centered, smaller hole once the resin has cured. That way the hole is completely sealed to water. I use butyl caulk on the bottom around the wire to finish it off.
I have had some success making water tight wire connections using a cable gland such as this (Electrical Installation Accessories). Could even use Thomas' FG resin filled hole with one of these installed in the centre.

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